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Adobe Photoshop Family

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

Mon, Jul 31, 2017 11:15 AM

Photoshop: Selection, stored in alpha palette, is displayed reversed

Hello Adobe,
you ask people for their satisfaction, but you obviously don't care because some the simplest tools are buggy since two years!
Here is one very annoying: To reproduce the bug:
1. Make a selection 2. save the selection to Alpha palette
 => BUG: white is not selected area but black!

Responses

Champion

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3.1K Messages

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55.9K Points

3 years ago

I don't think this is a bug, but a matter of understanding the philosophy. If you make a selection, and the you turn that into a mask, everything outside the selection will be masked. So you could say that the mask is actually the inversed of the selection. That is why a mask is black on the outside of the initial selection, and a saved selection is black.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

No this is definitely no question of "philosophy", because it must be the consistent for everything.

1. You can't argue, when it is a layer mask, that black means not selected and when it is a alpha channel we decide black is selected. The minimum would be to leave the decision up to the user. And part 2 of the same bug is, that you can't change the preferences for a new document. And by the way who gives you the right to decide about my workflow philosophy?!

2. And if you would work with other softwares,  you wouldn't call it philosophy because you will find quite quickly out that there are clear rule on this earth, regardless if you are in aftereffects, nuke, mari, illustrator, maya or anywhere else, even how path selections are displayed. I have to work with about 10 different softwares... black means not selected, this is standard and has been ever since [and comes from masking in the dark room]
It has been the same in Photoshop for 2 decades and then this alpha palette bug was introduced.
So, I would really like to hear someone from Adobe here replying...

Champion

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3.1K Messages

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55.9K Points

I agree that it can be confusing, but think about it this way: If we see a layer with a mask, we tend to look at the layer itself as being the mask. So we see white as the mask (because that is where the layer is opaque) and black as the 'holes in the mask'. The layer itself is not the mask however; the layer has a mask. A mask hides your face, the holes show your eyes. So if you look at it this way it makes sense that black is the mask (because black hides the layer) and the holes are in the mask are white. That also explains why a fully white mask is the same as no mask.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

Johan, sorry but it took me an hour of my spare time describe this enormous problem which drives all of us crazy here, every f***k**g day...
I will not discuss this with you anymore. It is a bug. I already explained logically why it is.
I'm still waiting for Adobe to reply...

Champion

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3.1K Messages

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55.9K Points

Fine with me. Just don't hold your breath waiting for that 'bug' to become fixed...

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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52.9K Points

Hi Benedikt,

Well, I'm not exactly sure why the implementation appears different, but I've a strong suspicions it's about workflow and how the feature is used.  One person's use-case is another's bug.

Let me assure you that Photoshop has CONSISTENTLY behaved in this same way since CS2 (which came out more than 12 years ago and is the oldest version I can get to run on my machine).  So if it's a bug, it's a VERY old bug.  And yet this is the VERY FIRST TIME I've ever heard anyone complain about it and I read the forums every day I'm in the office (and some days I'm not!).  So no one else seems to have an issue with this.

Remember, masks use the paradigm of white = show and black = transparent.  So in a context of transparency, namely an alpha channel, black as transparency actually WOULD be consistent.

Thanks,
David

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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28.1K Points

3 years ago

Are you talking about the Channel Options being set to selected areas?

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

3 years ago

exactly, but the channel options don't store the settings as preference . so with each new document you start again there... (I think also each new alpha, I haven't Photoshop open right now)
You can say, the bug is at least also that you can't change the preferences permanently.

furthermore if you exchange documents with "foreign" others, you will still get back the wrong channel display, maybe even mixed with your own alphas. and you don't see it before testing of each alpha, how it is meant.

Adobe Administrator

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14.8K Messages

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285.4K Points

3 years ago

I'm seeing the Channel Options stored between alpha creation, document creation and sessions (quitting and relaunching Photoshop)

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

3 years ago

They aren't stored at all. And for me the main thing: the default setting is wrong.
Masked Areas is technical correctly. 

Again a very simple proof:
Select any channel from RGB, for example the Blue channel and make a selection from it.
Store it.
Watch the result and compare with the original blue channel.
It's out of discussion, that this is a bug... since two years...

If you don't correct the default, people in companies will go on to exchange documents with messed up alphas. Don't expect the "normal" user to go so deep. And you really also don't want to check each alpha with a double click, to find out how it is set.

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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28.1K Points

i've tried to reproduce this issue on multiple computers using 3 different versions of PS and, for me, it always works as expected. Do you have any plugins or extensions or panels which might be causing this behavior?

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

Hi eartho, do you work on Mac or PC? Can you store your preference on Mac? I can't

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

3 years ago

This is not the same... it is the opposite

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

3 years ago

Hello again,

and yes, David, like Nicole said...
I'm not sure if you understood how simple and how stupid the problem ("bug") is .

It just doesn't store my personal preference. Imagine you would have to set with each file saving all your color sync settings again. 

Also the path tool works correctly, it remembers what the last path has been. But this doesn't... For the next channel again the check box below ist checked (instead the upper one).
See attached screenshot.

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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52.9K Points

Thanks for the clarification, Benedikt.  I wonder if there's a bug with the localized product.  I'm teaching today, so only in the office for a half day, but Monday I'll install the German app and compare the behaviors.

Thanks,
David

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

Hello David,
just to let you know: I was installing today Photoshop 2018...
and I'm really tired, annoyed, frustrated and feel mocked, that after all this unbeleveable long and detailed conversation work for an obvious bug nothing happened.
Still in the German Mac version of Photoshop the alpha setting is wrong and uncustomizable and messing up my palette every day, and not only mine but of friends and coleagues.
I am paying your creative suite with a really high amount each month (not sure why, because I mostly need only Photoshop), but you Adobe support team just don't care which problems exists.
It's exactly what other people say, don't waste your time with Adobe, they reply but don't care.
Just only with my personal annual money you could pay a software developer for 12 hours to fix this bug, and it really needs not twelve hours but only two. Instead we sit here to discuss 12 hours and again this is interrupting my work.
That's a breathtaking ignorance from your team at Adobe!

42 Messages

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1.1K Points

Exactly, Benedikt... I saw your other posting from January 2016    :-D

42 Messages

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1.1K Points

it was the same topic...

42 Messages

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1.1K Points

3 years ago

Hey, the bug was fixed now in the latest Photoshop!
Great!
Thanks

631 Messages

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9.6K Points

I didn't read whole conversation, but found that other topic you mentioned. Well 8 months is long, but it seems not so long when you find it took 2 years to fix it :/ Hopefully now you can be happy :)
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/alt-key-lost-possibility-to-create-alpha-chan...

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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52.9K Points

This wasn't fixed.  I never managed to get behavior that was different between English and German, so I didn't log a bug.  If things are different with the latest release, it's probably because a setting file was overwritten, but I looked again with the latest German build and compared that all the way back to English CS2 behavior and they're the same.  And, yes, I specifically checked on Mac.  Perhaps Eartho is correct and there is another plugin or some such that created the issue you're seeing, but it's no longer an issue...?

631 Messages

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9.6K Points

BTW  David, could you please answer to my topic I gave much effort to collect all information in but for some reason noone is answering for :/ You can omit original post of me but read last post were I included detailed information of that newest bug I found. Thank you in advance!

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/opened-document-s-is-are-invisible-after-comi...

42 Messages

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1.1K Points

On my Laptop it is fixed and I was told from a collegue in a different company and different machine, that it is fixed on his computer, too, now.

I checked: The last Photoshop, which this worked correctly was Photoshop CS6, which I still have on this computer – and now even it works latest Photoshop2018.
I did not change anything, just update. Somebody must have fixed it or it was cleaned somehow in any other process.

(I will soon update my desktop computer and see then if it's there fixed, but I'm completely sure it will be then.)
Thanks

77 Messages

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1.3K Points

Hello, unfortunately not here.  
I updated Photoshop 2018 on my Desktop Mac (OS X 10.11.6) and still can't change whether the selected area is displayed with black or white.
When I take a selection from blue channel and store ist, it is inverted displayed, other than the thumbnail.
If you find a solution, would be grateful...