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4 Messages

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184 Points

Mon, Feb 22, 2016 8:49 PM

Under consideration

9

Photoshop: OpenType Number Features: Proportional, Tabular, Lining, and Oldstyle

A feature that has been sorely missing from Photoshop since the implementation of its OpenType capabilities is the ability to specify which number features to use. This feature is fully implemented in InDesign and Illustrator so it's puzzling that it would be missing from Photoshop.

Responses

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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52.9K Points

4 years ago

Howdy Seth,

Sorry for the delay in responding -- I've been on leave.  But, I'm back now and interested in making all things typographic better.

Can you talk to me more about what precise OT feature you'd like to see and what the workflow / use case for it would be?  Let's see if we can make this happen...!

Thanks,
David

3 Messages

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106 Points

4 years ago

Hi David,

Here's an OpenType feature display for a font I recently added to my library. [http://cdn.myfonts.net/s/aw/original/392/0/200891.png]  @ [http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/rohh/pusia/]

The first lines in the second column represent the OpenType features I would like to see available in Photoshop. The lining (proportional) figures seem to be the default for most fonts, while some opt to use tabular figures.
A workflow that would require tabular figures could be a menu, where you want your price figures to line up.
A workflow where proportional figures are required would likely be any which included numbers in the flow of text, such as a title, or in the body of a large text block where tabular figures would interrupt the natural flow.
The choice of oldstyle figures would likely be an entirely stylistic choice or one made based on textual flow. Oldstyle figures would flow with text better, but if you want the numbers to be visually distinct, without interrupting the flow, proportional lining figures might be a better choice.

The linked page has an OpenType feature breakdown by program [table near the bottom] and while Photoshop has most of the common features covered, like Illustrator and InDesign, the number features are conspicuously absent. [http://ilovetypography.com/OpenType/opentype-features.html]

Your attention to this little corner of Photoshop's Type features is much appreciated, David.

Thanks,
Seth
[guess I used a different account before, oops]

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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52.9K Points

4 years ago

Howdy Seth,

Other than the numerical features, if I'm understanding you correctly, nearly all of these features have been in Photoshop for a long time.  If you look in the Character Panel, you'll see two rows of icons for Open Type features.  Using Lust Script and Tisa Sans Pro for testing (cuz I know they support all our OT options), I'm seeing Small Caps, Superscript, Subscript, Stylistic Alternatives, Fractions, and Ordinals all work fine.  It just depends on getting a font that support these.

You are correct that the numeric features aren't well supported (though the table shows Super- and Sub-script not supported, so, again, either I'm missing something or this table is off) -- which then begs the question: how often do you need this?  I'm not at all asking to be a pain; I'm trying to generate a good argument to devote engineering effort to this, as there are many features being considered.  And, to clarify, you would be interested in seeing PS add support for Tabular Lining, Proportional Lining, and Tabular Oldstyle, right?

If you'd like, we could continue this via email or even over the phone as well.  My email is d + my last name @ adobe DOT com.

Thanks,
David

3 Messages

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106 Points

4 years ago

Hi David,

You are correct and I'm not disputing the presence of the rest of Photoshop's OpenType support. I am specifically requesting the addition of the number glyph features you mentioned in Photoshop's support for OpenType.

To be honest, it's a convenience more than anything. You could hack the same together using kerning/tracking and baseline offsets. It's a matter of your engineers/programmers doing work up front to implement the feature to save designer's time fiddling away at the controls to get just the right look when deadlines loom.

To be honest, I'm not officially a graphics designer, I'm in IT. I do get things dumped on me however when our small company's graphics designer is buried. We have a few annual events that we do quite a bit of work on in addition to our regular workload. Dates and such are usually involved in those graphics, so the numbers play a prominent role in web graphics, letterhead, forms, etc.

I'm kind of taking the de facto lead in growing our company's type library. Our graphic designer seems satisfied with the stuff that comes with his preferred graphics suite from another company—which I won't deign to name because I despise their software. Anyway, I've been enjoying looking through type families, seeing all the cool stuff OpenType can do, and taking advantage of the incredible sales MyFonts holds.

I can't imagine being isolated in the wish to see a complete feature coverage of OpenType in PhotoShop, although I know it doesn't fit the name. It is kind of disproportionately cumbersome to pop open InDesign just to check out a new font family.

Ramble over. Thanks,
Seth

Adobe Administrator

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52.9K Points

Right on, Seth.  Thanks.  I appreciate your openness and candor. 

I totally agree that there's a work-around, but it's far from easy and would be damn hard for any marketing department to standardize on.  That alone should be a vote for the feature, IMHO.

If other folks are having the same desire to see these numeric Open Type features added, please weigh in.  The more voices I have in support of this (or any) new feature, the more likely I can make it happen.  

Have a great one,
David

3 Messages

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106 Points

Likewise, David. I look forward to the outcome.

2 Messages

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150 Points

4 years ago

+1 for wanting this. It appears to be highly desired by many designers (going back many years) from a Google search.

Increasingly, a lot of "Pro" typefaces (even distributed by TypeKit) are having their numerical figures defaulted to the "OldStyle" format, where the numbers aren't consistently in a line. Some go below the baseline, some only rise to the X-height, etc.

It's crazy to think that I can't just get a simple row of consistent "tabular" or "lining" numerals in Photoshop.

For instance, I'm laying out a web site now, and I want to list the phone number. But I want it to use numerals that don't dance up and down along the baseline. For me to do this, I have to layout the numbers in Illustrator and then import them as a Smart Object. This is ridiculous.

This is becoming more of a problem, I think, because until recently, tabular/lining figures were the default, and the OldStyle numerals were left for an occasional manual selection.

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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52.9K Points

4 years ago

I've gone ahead and logged this as a feature request.  If others would also like to see this capability added to Photoshop, please add a comment.  The more heat this topic can generate, the more likely it will be addressed.

Thanks,
David

1 Message

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100 Points

4 years ago

+1

I need this as well. We use some faces that default to old style numerals, but we need lining numerals in many instances, especially for designing screens. When mocking up options I need an easy way to switch. The more support for OT features, the better.

3 Messages

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142 Points

4 years ago

I'd appreciate this feature too - I'm generating some mobile assets where having tabular figures would be helpful. Thanks for your receptiveness, David.

2 Messages

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150 Points

4 years ago

@David, thanks for logging it. Part of the problem, BTW, is that traditionally, most of the typefaces had lining figures as the default. It's rare that someone *needs* Photoshop to show old-style figures. Most anyone can get by with lining figures if need be.

But in the past few years, it seems an increasingly large number of typefaces are defaulting to lining figures. This makes doing web/app mockups very difficult in Photoshop, since we can't switch out of them now.

7 Messages

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244 Points

4 years ago

+1 for this. It's amazing to me that this feature hasn't already been implemented.

1 Message

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102 Points

4 years ago

+1 for this. I need this feature!

1 Message

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120 Points

4 years ago

+ 1. I've run into this countless times when working on web and interface mockups.

2 Messages

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64 Points

4 years ago

+1 

2 Messages

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64 Points

4 years ago

+1

3 Messages

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200 Points

4 years ago

+1000
Illustrator does support these OTF features. Why can ́t Photoshop do so?