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116 Messages

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2.9K Points

Thu, Jun 18, 2020 6:59 AM

In progress

Photoshop: Grid is drawing too thick when zoomed out

The new grid in 21.1. Oh my God. I can't stand it. Whose idea was it to make the grid be a compulsory 2px thickness?

It looks actually very nice in zoomed-in mode:




But it's just horrible when you zoom out. What used to be a feather-thin lattice of lines has become a solid 2px-thick mess that overwhelms everything else. When you use use lots of artboards like me (and therefore need to frequently navigate around in zoomed-out mode) it becomes quite problematic. 

Here's the same portion of a document with the new grid and without. Even though it's zoomed out, you can clearly make out the content of it when there's no grid. But once you show the new grid, you can barely see anything but the thick gridlines. Some of the smaller shapes that are easily visible on the left are now hard to make out, as are the translucent ones; the text is much harder to read too. Plus the whole thing is just straining on your eyes.

The old grid didn't have these problems. Dammit, Adobe, this reminds me of the shift+transform debacle. Why fix things that aren't broken, when there are already plenty of things that are broken but remain unfixed year after year? These updates are exasperating sometimes.  




I can't find any setting anywhere to revert to a more sensible 1-px grid, but I'm just really really hoping that I've missed it somehow. If not, please, for the love of God, let us choose a 1px version in the settings!

Responses

7 Messages

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152 Points

5 months ago

It is really annoying, don't know why Adobe changes a running system. Or at least let us choose how thick we would like the grid lines. It is not possible to work with the grid, as everything jumps around, the performance can't keep up. Thank god I still have 2019 Installed, so I have to swap whenever I work with the grid.

13 Messages

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200 Points

It is not only annoying. It is expensive, too. Adobe CC costs lot of money. And if you are using photoshop for business... well you got the point.

13 Messages

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200 Points

5 months ago

The bad thing for me is that I have CC subscription and I cannot go back to older versions. Annoying!

13 Messages

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222 Points

5 months ago

Yep.  Was excited when I saw the update today.  Hoped it would have a fix for this in it.  Nope.

Temporary Solution:
I will say that if you turn off "Use Graphics Processer" under Preferences > Performance, you get the old grid.  It sucks to not have the advantages of the Graphics Processer, but if you really need the grid, this is your only option.

13 Messages

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200 Points

5 months ago

Grid without GPU is ok, bud guides are not. They should be over grid, but guides are under the grid. So neither with or without GPU support is working ok. Not the mention that GPU becomes waste of money if no GPU support is turned on.
Come on guys, please fix this problem!

13 Messages

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222 Points

5 months ago

As someone commented above installing version 20.0.10 is the last version without this issue.  I'll be working in that until this is fixed.

2 Messages

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82 Points

5 months ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled "Show grid" tremendously slows Photoshop down!.

I am currently on Photoshop CC 2020 21.2.1. Currently clicking on "View/Show/Grid" and start zooming in/out, rotating canvas, it tremendously slows PS down to a point it stutters!!! My workstation is definitely more capable of running multiple programs(both 3D & 2D) at the same time, even with dedicated graphic card. And I have never had this issue before. So it is from Adobe's side that this bug happens.

Please look into this and fix it! At this point, it is impossible to work with grid turned on. 

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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28.5K Points

5 months ago

With today's 21.2.2 release, Ps slows to a crawl with the Grid Visible and the lines are still too thick, obscuring the image we're trying to view.

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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28.5K Points

I'm seeing acceptable performance and vis on my mbp though? It appears this issue is SD display related?

13 Messages

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200 Points

My issue is on 1920x1200 screen size and on 1920x1080 screen size.

13 Messages

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222 Points

I don't think it has anything to do with SD displays.  I'm doubtful anyone has an SD display in 2020.  Unless you're considering 1920 x 1080 SD.

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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28.5K Points

Matt, huh? Most of the world is still using SD. Almost all high-end monitors are SD... NEC, Eizo, etc. The res most of us run at is 2560x1440, and I'm currently looking at a display which is 3440x1440 SD.

13 Messages

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222 Points

I think we may have different definitions of SD.  As far as I knew SD was 640x480, which almost no one is running at anymore.

https://www.muvi.com/blogs/streaming-video-resolutions.html#:~:text=What%20is%20SD%20(Standard%20Definition,480%20in%20a%20single%20image.

While HD is 1920x1080, which I think most people are running at, not 2560x1440.  I think 1440 displays are still pretty niche.

https://www.screenresolution.org/

https://gs.statcounter.com/screen-resolution-stats/desktop/worldwide

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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28.5K Points

ah, High Density vs Standard Density. SD displays are ~100ppi and HD are 150+. 
And no, 2560x1440 is quite common nowadays. Most 27" monitors are that res.

13 Messages

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200 Points

I use NEC 24" professional graphics monitor and it is 1920x1200. No need for higher resolution. But, still that does not explain the thickness of the grid in Photoshop.

13 Messages

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222 Points

I mean I just posted actual screen resolution stats.  18% of monitors are 1920x1080.  2560x1440 is at 3%.  I think it's less common than you think.

I just searched Newegg for monitors.  5 out of 50 on the first page were 2560.  The rest were 1080.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=monitor

Though I'm sure in the graphic design world that percent is a higher.  Personally I still work on 1080 screens.  But I haven't bought a monitor in over 5 years.

I hadn't seen SD referring to pixel density.  I suppose that's probably a more relevant use of the acronym considering no one uses 480 monitors anymore.

Champion

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2.3K Messages

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38K Points

I just searched Newegg for monitors.  5 out of 50 on the first page were 2560.  The rest were 1080.
Incorrect! At the link you posted in the left side selector there is a list (Recommended Resolution) of ALL the monitors they sell by resolution.  There are 630 1920 x 1080 monitors and 628 2560 and higher resolution monitors. This doesn't include Mac systems most of which have integrated Retina displays with greater than 1920 x 1080 resolution.


1920 x1080 TVs are almost nonexistent (see below Costco TV search)!


https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=monitor



https://www.costco.com/televisions.html

13 Messages

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200 Points

It really doesn't matter if monitor is 1200p or 2160p. Grid line is 2px thick and never mind which resolution you use, 2px will be 2px on every monitor. On the other side, performance is very poor. If you revert to older version of photoshop, you will see that grid is ok. By the way, there is option to turn off anti-aliasing in photoshop if you find out that grid is not appearing ok, but that option is not working for me.

13 Messages

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222 Points

Well that still shows that 1080 is the most common.  There's 630 1080 monitors and 630 2K or higher monitors.  And only 250 @ 2560x1440, which was claimed to be the most common type of monitor now.  I think this does show things are headed there, but it's still far more common for people to have 1080 monitors than anything else because people aren't upgrading monitors every year so it's going to take some time for today's sales statistics to match usage statistics.

As far as TVs that's also not the case everywhere.  I just bought a TV at Walmart (where a lot more people shop, 3 million vs 38 million per day) not long ago and the section for HD TVs was as large as the 2K and 4K TVs, though of course most of the TVs they were showing off were the 4K TVs.

If you go to Walmart you can see that it's about half and half.


I'll concede that it's heading that way.  But as far as what people actually have right now, most people are still using 1080 TVs.

Looking at TV statistics 2019 was the first year with more 4K sales than HD sales.  46% - 53%

https://www.statista.com/statistics/818419/world-tv-market-share-by-type/

So probably within a few years 1080 is going to start looking like 480 in terms of usage.  We're just not quite there yet.

I'm sure people are finding this conversation tiring, but I do think it's important to consider what users are viewing things we make on.  And it looks like very soon it's going to be mostly 4K.  Which means much bigger PSD files for everyone!

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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28.5K Points

Just a heads-up guys, this issue is being actively tracked and worked on... hopefully a fix is released soon!

13 Messages

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200 Points

5 months ago

I have just installed version 21.2.2 of Photoshop. Grid and performance are still terrible.

13 Messages

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200 Points

5 months ago

Photoshop version 21.2.3 just came out. Grid is still not fixed and performance is still poor. ☹

13 Messages

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194 Points

The same, the bug is still here. Developers, see our pain, fix it finally!

7 Messages

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152 Points

4 months ago

21.2.4.  Problem still not solved. Ok when I don't use sublines. With sublines I can't even zoom and not usable. How much longer do we have to wait?

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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28.5K Points

Adobe Max is usually when they release the next big version, so hopefully the grid fix is included with that in a few weeks... 

Adobe Administrator

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15.9K Messages

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295.2K Points

Yep. Engineers have been working on this. We'll update the thread when an update/fix is released.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

Adobe Administrator

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15.9K Messages

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295.2K Points

3 months ago

Can you please install Photoshop 22.0 which was released this AM? It should address this issue.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

2 Messages

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72 Points

Problem resolved! Excellent, thank you.

Champion

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2.3K Messages

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38K Points

Jeff, looks way better with PS 22.0 on my Windows 10 system. Thank you!

116 Messages

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2.9K Points

@JeffreyTranberry Not until someone from Adobe comments on whether 22.0 addresses the performance issues introduced in ~21.1 

I'm stuck using 21.0.3 because all later versions are so poor performance-wise that they're basically unusable for me, as they are for very many other users. It has cost me many hours of trial and error to find a version that works (and to re-do all my settings and presets). If there's no indication from Adobe that they are aware of the problem and have addressed it in 22.0, then I can't risk wasting more time. (the fix for this grid problem is a good start, but the problem is more extensive than that).

And yes, I have a very powerful PC, I've updated to the latest GPU drivers, tried older drivers too, tried every combination of nvidia settings I could think of: Gsync on/off, SLI on/off, Performance mode, defined CUDA cores, reinstalled my wacom drivers, uninstalled my wacom drivers, etc. 

Unfortunately, none of it helped. The problem seems rooted not in hardware but in Photoshop, since users with all sorts of hardware have reported similar problems, including both PC and Mac users. 

Here's one thread about the problem: https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/photoshop/photoshop-cc-2020212-app-literally-became-critically-slow-with-frequent-stuttering/5f5f46244b561a3d4275f24e

And here's another one: https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop/photoshop-2020-running-slow/m-p/11251528?page=14#M344045

The fact that no one from Adobe seems to have even acknowledged these problems, which for so many users are very severe, and have been reported for a very long time now, concerns me. Like many others, I'm stuck using an old version of the software while being forced to continually pay for new versions that don't work. This experience - primarily Adobe's seeming indifference and/or obliviousness to it - has greatly eroded the enormous, decades-long respect, admiration and loyalty that I had for this once-great company. 

Please, @JeffreyTranberry, as one of the only Adobe employees who seems to pop their head up around here, and who actually liases with us and listens to us, could you please make some sort of comment on that thread I Iinked to, or one of the other ones like it. The performance problems many of us are facing are truly crippling, and the enduring silence from Adobe on the matter is maddening. 

I myself am not expecting grand promises that everything will be fixed for everyone in the next version. But something - anything - to indicate that Adobe engineers are actually aware of the problem and will be allotted some time to look into it, would go a long way to restoring some of the good faith that's been lost. 

If you read this all the way through, thank you.  

(edited)

Adobe Administrator

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15.9K Messages

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295.2K Points

You can install 22.0 alongside your 21.x install. Prerelease has indicated that changes made to GPU drawing, etc have improved this and other performance issues. I can't promise it addresses everything on the thread you link to because there are so many variables (computer hardware, drivers, system specific software conflicts, etc). We're often not able to reproduce some issues.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

116 Messages

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2.9K Points

How do I ensure that the update doesn't overwrite my 21.x version? Or does it install a new standalone version by default?

Adobe Administrator

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15.9K Messages

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295.2K Points

https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/help/creative-cloud-updates.html

see Advanced options for individual apps and make sure Remove older versions is unchecked.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

116 Messages

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2.9K Points

Goddamit, @JeffreyTranberry I went against my gut and decided to trust that you knew what you were talking about. So I followed your advice, to the letter. But it turns out that your advice was inaccurate, and now I seem to have lost my most-workable version of Photoshop for ever. Thanks. 

I installed 22.0 as you suggested. Performance is as poor as before, but worth a try - just need to go back to 21.0.3 which, as I said earlier, is the last properly-working version for me. But now I bloody can't!

22.x did indeed install separately to 21.x, but what you neglected to mention was that by installing 22.x as per your instructions, the Creative Cloud app would automatically update all existing versions of Photoshop. So my 21.0.3 has now become 21.2.4, which is completely unusable. And I don't the term "unusable" flippantly: a simple pan of the canvas took 23 seconds to execute (I timed it). Turning off the grid took more like 40-50 seconds to execute.

That alone would be bad enough, but still just in the territory of mere annoyance rather than serious problem. Because I could just manually rollback again to 21.0.3, right? Well, for some reason, most of the older versions are now inaccessible. The only versions I can roll back to now are 22.0, 21.2.4, 20.0.9 (and yes, I have "show older versions" on in preferences). I guess now that we're in the 22.x generation, Creative Cloud stopped giving access to any but the latest variant of the previous 20.x and 21.x generations. So the 21.0.3 I was using seems inaccessible now. Of the 3 available versions, 22.1 is barely usable, while 21.2.4 is flat out unusable. I'm now stuck with 20.0.9, which robs me of several 21.x-generation features I'd come to rely on. 

Bloody hell. It was for exactly this reason that I was reluctant to heed your suggestion of trying 22.x. Actually, I was merely scared of wasting a few hours having to reconfigure presets - I didn't suspect I'd actually be locked out of my 21.0.3 version forever! But you assured me my existing version would be safe, so I did what you asked. And now I seem to be stuck with 20.0.9 as a result. 

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. That Creative Cloud's infrastructure has become so byzantine that not even a Senior Adobe Product Manager seems to understand it seems, sadly, just about right. 

7 Messages

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152 Points

3 months ago

With version 21.0. the grid is working again as it should

13 Messages

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194 Points

2 months ago

Version 22.0. The grid is ok now. But the guides are still thick. But I see some progress: at 100% zoom (301x301 px document) I noticed one center vertical guide is displayed with 1 px width. At 66% — there's more, and at 33% — even more but not all of them.

(edited)

13 Messages

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194 Points

It's the same on 22.0.1.