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mladen_penev's profile

231 Messages

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5K Points

Wed, May 9, 2012 9:45 PM

Solved

Photoshop: CS6 Slow compared to CS5.1 with large files

PS CS6 has a lot of enhancements and great features. it launches very fast, and the control is very responsive and smooth.

although i am experiencing some speed issues with very large files. compared to CS5.1, where i don't have any of these issues.

the files are PSBs, 9000x8000px, 80+layers, RGB, 8bit

i have the same performance settings for both, cs6 and cs5
i am working on MAC PRO, 16GB ram, SSD scratch, 2TB raid, Radeon HD 5770, Snow Leopard.

the main issues i have are:

- no refresh when i move the curve on adjustment layer. the refresh comes after i let go.
- jagged pan
- extremely slow moving of layers and layer groups, even if they are with smaller dimensions (800x400pix)

again, working with files with less layers or smaller dimensions is very fast.

thanks for your help and support!
m.

Responses

19 Messages

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242 Points

9 years ago

I have also tried all the fixes above AND on a brand spanking new iMac (3 weeks old) that is maxed out for RAM and is installed on a Solid State drive and as soon as I get to working with larger files for a concerted time it becomes unusable.

Just put 'Photoshop CS6 slow' in Google and it's easy to see the problem. I would imagine the guys at Adobe will have been instructed certainly never to admit there is a problem. With the power of social media they will certainly be very keen to quell any and all disquiet.

Not good enough Adobe. Currently I want my £900 back!

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

If you've applied those workarounds, then you have some other problem that we need your help identifying. No, there is no easy to see problem - or we would have identified it by now.

If you want a refund, call Customer Support.
If you want to see the problem fixed - work with us. Be specific about what the problem is, when it appears, what sort of document it takes to make it happen, what else is happening on your system, and what sort of troubleshooting you've already done.

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

9 years ago

I'm sorry for the folks experiencing this problem, but I have just tried to reproduce it on my PC workstation, and I find I cannot.

My system happens to be of similar power to the one described at the top but it is not a Mac - it's a 2007 design Dell Precision T5400 running Windows 7 x64, 8 cores, 16 GB, SSD storage, ATI Radeon HD 5670 1GB card.

I just opened a 9909 x 6501 pixel astroimage I happen to have on hand with over 40 layers. It's a mosaic of Hubble images.

• Display update when I move a curve on an adjustment layer is immediate while I'm moving the point on the curve, whether a global adjustment layer or one clipped to a layer below.

• Panning works smoothly. Even the flick panning nicely slowed down and settled pleasingly when I let up the mouse button.

• I can move layers and groups around perfectly interactively.

I just duplicated almost all the layers, so that now I have 81 layers.

• I see no difference in performance. It's still perfectly interactive.

• I saved the file with the extra layers and it's a 5 GB PSB file. The save took 21 seconds to complete.

Layer thumbnails are on, and all the while during testing I have been playing an internet radio station (without any skips) and I have a bunch of other apps open.

Is this a Mac-specific problem?

I'm currently downloading the big zip file posted above to give it a try. I'll report back when I do.

-Noel

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No, it is not platform specific. But it will get worse with increased layer count.

And may get worse depending on the actual content of the layers (since both known problems have to search for the bounds of the layer repeatedly).

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

How the heck many layers would I need to see a slowdown? 80+ layers in a 60+ megapixel image that saves as 5 GB on disk seems like fair bit already.

It also seems that for folks working on such large/deep images, an ultramodern, fully equipped computer would be a must. 48 GB or more of RAM would be advisable.

It seems to me that if it takes literally hundreds of layers to cause noticeable problems, why not adjust the workflow a bit so as not to need so many layers? I do understand that not everyone uses Photoshop for the same things, but isn't the goal in keeping everything separate to facilitate future editability. If that's destroyed by the document becoming unweildy to edit, where's the advantage?

The PSCS6_large_file_test.psb.zip from above has just finished downloading. I think I'll have a look...

5 Messages

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100 Points

There is no reason to scale back one's methods when CS5 works flawlessly, and the hardware can back you up.

I had a file that was 6000x5000 or so... 200 layers, many smart objects, layer FX, masks etc... worked great in CS5, then in CS6 I lowered the res to 3000x2000, merged many layers.. and still performed much slower than cs5 with all layers intact..

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The ones I've looked at had 200 to 600 layers to really show a significant slowdown. It's not the size of the document, but the number of layers that have to be invalidated or searched for their bounds that causes the slowdown (plus a VM lock inside the bounds search).

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

It sure smells to me like something specific is going wrong on some systems and not others.

I'm not willing to guess whether it could be a GPU or software issue, but I'm just not seeing significant degradation with Photoshop CS6 vs. CS5 on ANY documents.

The only thing I've seen a slight degradation with in Photoshop CS6 is painting performance with very large brushes, and that's 5% to 10%. I sense that Photoshop CS6 is not throwing away mouse events as readily as its predecessor, opting for quality over speedup. Certainly a 10% reduction in brush performance in some cases wouldn't make me complain about it.

Do you have a file (or know of one online) with which you can demonstrate a definite difference?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Ray Stofberg's file from 5 days ago was a good example - but I'm not sure if it's still on his website. Try http://wtrns.fr/a11OwVlSE27cSI

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

PSCS6_large_file_test.psb only shows the layer thumbnail slowdown.
It needs about 5 times as many layers to really show the snap slowdown.

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

Downloading now...

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

I tested that "Ray Stofberg" karate snapshot montage.

Though I could not open it into Photoshop CS5 without confirming a warning that some data was going to be deleted to keep layers editable, Photoshop CS6 was was EXACTLY as responsive in moving layers around as Photoshop CS5. I even timed things with a stopwatch.

And yes, disabling the thumbnails made things faster.

But why is this coming up only now? It's no worse than it was before.

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

In fact, I just tested with Photoshop CS4 64 bit as well. Same speed.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The "snap to layer" option in CS6 is slower (I profiled it more than a few times figuring out why). CS5 and earlier should be about the same.
And I missed it on the first test because I had that snap option turned off.

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

Ah. I had that turned off just now too.

Doesn't seem like an option that should be too bad for people to turn off by default for now.

But I sense there must be something else going on that's causing (primarily Mac?) users to decry Photoshop CS6 as "unusable" and "EPIC FAIL".

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Yes, I think there is something else going on that is Macintosh specific, but we haven't been able to reproduce the problems and are only guessing at causes (though I may have found some smoking guns, we can't find any casings, slugs, or victims).

3 Messages

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80 Points

Having same issues on Windows

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

With version... ????

-Noel

3 Messages

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80 Points

Adobe Photoshop Version: 13.0 (13.0 20120315.r.428 2012/03/15:21:00:00) x32
Operating System: Windows XP 32-bit
Version: 5.1 Service Pack 3
System architecture: Intel CPU Family:6, Model:10, Stepping:7 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2
Physical processor count: 4
Processor speed: 2993 MHz
Built-in memory: 3697 MB
Free memory: 552 MB
Memory available to Photoshop: 1717 MB
Memory used by Photoshop: 60 %

PSD 1200x3400px With many layer and 15 layer comps just over 80MB

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

Thanks for the feedback.

You might want to try installing the 13.0.1 Photoshop update, made available yesterday, and please report back whether it makes a difference in what you're seeing.

-Noel

3 Messages

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80 Points

Just updated:
Adobe Photoshop Version: 13.0.1 (13.0.1 20120808.r.519 2012/08/08:21:00:00) x32
But still have same issue

14 Messages

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192 Points

Noel, thanks for posting the update about the patch but I have to agree with Nachman, not seeing any noticeable improvements in performance or speed.

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

That, unfortunately, says that there must be ANOTHER issue besides the layer bounds efficiency corrections made by Chris in 13.0.1.

Let the next round of problem reporting begin!

I suggest you start a NEW THREAD with 13.0.1 specifically in the name, and describe in detail what you see, much like many of the folks did in this thread. I suggest starting a new one so that there can be NO CONFUSION that you still have a real bug, vs. the problems that are now supposedly fixed.

-Noel

1 Message

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60 Points

9 years ago

I am also having problems with cs6 on a macbook pro. I mainly paint and use large files with many layers. Opening up a large file I am already working in, it begins fine, then starts to slow and suddenly photoshop will become seriously slow to a point were just one brush stroke will require waiting for the spinning wheel, attempting to zoom in will cause it to freeze like its using the scratch instead of ram (I have 8gig installed). This same file works absolutely fine in CS5, which indicates that it is not my system, but when CS6 slows it also effects my entire system. I played around with the optimization setting trying various combinations which made no difference with 100% efficiency. However, what I did discover, which may be important and people should check, is when it suddenly becomes slow, the CPU usage will spike and max out both cores. Is it possible that under certain conditions, there is a problem with how CS6 handles CPU usage?

14 Messages

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232 Points

9 years ago

Hello "Noel CarbonI" - why exactly are you in this thread if you aren't having any issues with CS6 Photoshop?

You may not be a complete Sock Puppet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpupp... ) but it's hard to believe that someone who hasn't got a problem would just randomly start commenting on a thread where there's a real issue.

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

9 years ago

>Hello "Noel CarbonI"
>why exactly are you in this thread if you aren't having any issues with CS6 Photoshop?
>You may not be a complete Sock Puppet
>it's hard to believe...

Hello David, do you insult everyone you meet? Frankly I don't give a rat's behind what you believe. But I'll tell you:

I'm here because I was led here by a link on the Adobe Photoshop General Discussion forum, on which I am a contributor.

I'm here because I like to help try to get to the bottom of Photoshop issues.

As a graphics software developer who sells into the Photoshop market I find knowing the product and market very well are advantages.

In this particular case I'm trying to reinforce or dispel a growing feeling I am getting that Mac users in general are less happy with Photoshop CS6 because they're generally having more problems than PC users - for some reason.

My best guess at the moment is that Photoshop CS6, with a higher reliance on advanced GPU support, isn't able to use the GPUs in Macs as effectively as those on PCs because the existing drivers don't give the solid support needed, and Mac users simply don't have the flexibility to mix and match driver releases with their OS updates that PC users have.

I also am starting to wonder whether there is more PC development talent at Adobe than Mac, though I know well that some of the very brightest people there do work on both systems.

What's your agenda, David, with your first post in this thread? Alienating people you don't know? At least my posts are on-topic.

-Noel

14 Messages

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232 Points

9 years ago

If you'd been in this thread from the beginning you'd have seen I've been active from the start - it's very convenient for Adobe that suddenly you can only see the most recent replies, not the rest of the 270 comments that form the main bulk of the discussion.

If you could see the rest of the comments, you'd see that this issue is happening on PC and Mac. You'd also see that peoples main issue is that they have gone from a perfectly functional CS5 Photoshop to a CS6 Photoshop that has massive slowdown in some circumstances.

What's my agenda? Getting the software fixed, pure and simple. I'm tired of being told that it's my problem that Photoshop has regressed and your "it's fine for me" comment is of no help whatsoever.

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

9 years ago

Funny thing... My goal is the same - help Adobe determine what their problems are so that they can develop fixes. I just don't go about accusing other people of subversion in the process of doing it. Instead I try to catalyze the information flow.

In case you hadn't noticed, Adobe seems to gravitate toward considering this a performance issue, and where there are performance issues I've shown that they've been around for multiple versions.

That you think there is just one issue here ("this issue" - your words, singular) shows that you really don't understand the complexity of the process running state of the art graphics software. It's pretty clear from the thread above that there's something Mac-specific going on, among other things. And much confusion.

You have to accept that a certain level of hardware-software integration responsibility lies on your shoulders. This is the price we all pay for being able to buy software that cost millions of dollars to develop for only a few hundred bucks.

I've shown that the software can actually work well; apparently all the parts of my PC system (GPU, drivers, etc.) all happen to support Photoshop CS6 perfectly. That's your clue to look for integration problems on your own system, and seek specific fixes (e.g., driver updates). Waiting for someone else to fix your problems is going to be frustrating.

What video card do you have, and what driver version have you installed?

What, specifically, seems to be slow on your system?

-Noel

34 Messages

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438 Points

9 years ago

This is one of the prime reasons I swapped to Mac after having used Windows machines since version 2.0 (before that DOS).

Mac users do no have the flexibility of a lot of hardware choice (unless you start flashing your own VGA cards in which case all bets are off).

Aside from the various hardware flukes that can have an adverse effect on Windows machines I too believe there definitely is an issue that seems to effect Mac machines more.

If only for the fact Mac users are less flexible in their choice of hardware and drivers (which is a good thing in most cases).

I am glad several issues have been found and are being worked on. Hopefully these will be resolved quickly too and if there are any other issues hopefully they will be found soon as well.

As for demanding my money back... this is not an option when you make your money from this software. We just have to make do with what we have.

231 Messages

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5K Points

9 years ago

a strange thing is this "get satisfaction" forum. how is this possible not to see the older posts????? i don't think this is right, how can we quote something said here???

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Yeah, they don't show the full thread if it gets too long - to avoid some sort of bug in the display code. GetSatisfaction is supposed to be working on it.
(but maybe you should let them know that you don't like it)

231 Messages

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5K Points

9 years ago

hi noel,
im kind of confused about your results with the large file.

you are working on quite the same configuration as mine, also the same year.
mine is mac pro and yours is pc. both are not the latest and the best.

i tried to upgrade as much as possible, ati 5770, ssd, 16gb ram.
almost exactly the same hardware as yours.

now i'm confused! how is this possible that you don't see any slowdown, even with the "thumbs on".

i could not find an older post here because we see only the recent 15 now, but i'm quite sure that there was someone with really maxed out PC, a lot of ram, etc, who also had a major slowdown?

is it possible for you to make a short movie of moving the white dots in the large document i posted with the thumbs on.

if that is true what you are saying, than i'm going to buy this old PC of yours and work on it from now on.
and also finally realize that adobe is not supporting apple anymore:))

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not seeing any real difference between Photoshop CS5 and CS6 with the test documents.

I do see some improvement in responsiveness between having the Layers panel thumbnails turned off and on, but it's not major. A few frames per second more as I recall. Specifically, with the thumbnails turned on, in both Photoshop CS5 and CS6 I see about a 5 frame per second update rate upon moving the layer. It's not fluid, but I could live with it.

I had View - Snap to Layers disabled during this testing. I don't see that as a big deal.

The key, I think, is that I see no difference between CS5 and CS6 on the task, which leads me to believe there's a problem specific to Macs here.

My Photoshop is presently about 30% through 20 minute deconvolution of an astroimage, so it will be a little while yet... I don't have a direct way to capture a video, but I should be able to come up with something. I've been wanting to evaluate the current version of Camtasia for a while now.

-Noel

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

I can't get to where I can put Captivate or Camtasia on my machine right away (I had hoped to do it in a VM, but that netted other problems).

But I've redone the testing just to double check...

The speedup when I disable layer thumbnails is from about 4 to 5 frames per second to about 7 or 8 frames per second (I counted pretty carefully). This is consistent across Photoshop CS4, 5, and 6.

Can you estimate the frames/second you're seeing when moving the white or black dots in the various conditions?

I did not see a difference in responsiveness between the versions. That's the key to focus on here I think. The layer thumbnail slowdown doesn't seem to have changed from version to version, so if you're seeing it running much more slowly, the issue has nothing to do with the thumbnails being on or off.

-Noel

231 Messages

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5K Points

in CS6 with thumbs on, when moving the white dots group, i don't see any frames. i don't see anything, the object stays where it was and the progress bar shows after a while and that's it!.
it's that slow! i just can't move them, it is unusable! compared to cs5 where moving them with thumbs on is not as much slower as with thumbs off.

turning the thumbs off (CS6) on the other hand is giving me the same speed as cs5. but that is not new to me and i know now, that this is the thumbnail problem.

i'm just amazed by how different two almost equal machines behve. there is definitely something wrong with the mac support?!

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

OK, so in summary:

You see similar performance to Photoshop CS5 when thunbnails are OFF, and a horrendous slowdown and completely DIFFERENT performance vs. CS5 with them ON.

I see only a modest slowdown with them ON and the same performance both ways from both CS5 and CS6.

So that certainly implies a Mac-specific bug related to the thumbnail processing then. Given that the code is built completely differently for Mac vs. PC I can see how something like an uninitialized pointer could possibly cause something like that.

I guess the layer thumbnail processing is where Adobe (Chris) has been looking, so this is not really a new dicscovery - though I haven't really seen this conclusion definitely stated.

Plus some people have implied they're seeing similar things on PCs as well. I wonder whether in those cases whether it's the same issue (e.g., does the horrendous slowdown follow the setting of the layer thumbnails, or is it just a modest slowdown?).

P.S., I'm making progress in getting to where I can capture a video, if that's still interesting.

-Noel

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The code is 99.99% the same between platforms. Unless there's a low level mutex bug in MacOS, this should be the same for both platforms.

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

Finally got all the pieces together to capture that video. I did it in a virtual machine, so it's not quite as efficient overall as on my host system, but the relative performance differences between Photoshop CS5 and CS6, and between thumbnails enabled and disabled are the same:

http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/Fo...

This was encoded in Windows 8, and for that reason doesn't seem to want to play in Windows 7's Media Player, but it will play in Quicktime.

-Noel

2 Messages

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70 Points

Noel, I just came across this thread as I am researching about the Photoshop performance on PC vs MAC.

Having watched your video, I can see the difference between CS5 and CS6. However, there is something about CS6 that was not on CS5...in CS6, on the cursor, there's a small white box beside it showing the x and y distance or dimension. It's not there in CS5.

Could it be that is slowing down the panning? By turning off the x & y distance display on cursor might help?

Regards

116 Messages

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1.9K Points

Yes, it's possible to see a slight difference. But the point is that some people are seeing a MAJOR difference. The lack of distinction between these is what drives the confusion. I believe there are bona fide bugs being seen on some systems causing additional lag.

Regarding whether plotting the little Transformation Values display could be figuring in... I wouldn't imagine something like that should slow things down, but who knows? Have you tried it with it on/off and seen a difference?

-Noel

2 Messages

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70 Points

Yes there is a small difference but maybe their workflow is different...

Unfortunately (or fortunately!), I do not have the Photoshop as I am doing the research for my friend, on building a new PC workstation for use with the Photoshop.

True but in these days with increasing complexity of software, it might be worth trying.

I guess that if someone sees a major difference, it would be good if they could upload a file for testing.

Gary

14 Messages

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232 Points

9 years ago

I'm glad we've got someone to "catalyze the information flow" on this thread - that's really helpful

1 Message

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60 Points

9 years ago

Chris, is the layer thumbnails slowdown issue being worked on, or you can't even reproduce it? Is it an isolated or widespread issue?

If it's related to CPU and video card, I'm on Core 2 Duo 2.4 Ghz, using nVidia 9400M and 9600M GT. Mac OS 10.7.4. All CS6 updates applied.

Extreme slowdowns are occurring when layer thumbnails are enabled (especially nudging multiple layers).

Thanks

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

As noted at the top of the discussion: yes, the known problems are being worked on.

14 Messages

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194 Points

9 years ago

Any update and or response to the jagged pan some of us have been seeing? I commented a couple weeks ago about this issue.

Chris, have you been able to duplicate it at all? To recap, I have a ~100mb file with around 150 layers open (this problem is not unique to this file size or layer count - it happens on small files in both regards as well). Most tasks between PS CS6 and PS CS5 are pretty comparable, except for the pan with the hand tool, or double finger pan on the trackpad. I use this tool all the time and the jagged movement really screws up my workflow, especially on larger files.

I am experiencing this problem in its worst form on my macbook air, i7 1.8 ghz w/ 4 gigs of ram, os: 10.8. Before you blame my specs as the culprit, please remember the same pan on the same file is at least 2x as fast on PS CS5 than it is on CS6.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Nope, can't replicate the jagged pan at all. But we have seen some driver slowdowns with the Intel GPUs on MacOS (CS6 makes more demands, and the driver says it can do it, but can't really).

14 Messages

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194 Points

Anyone else having this problem? I know laden m, who started this this thread mentioned having a similar problem, and he said he was on a mac pro. The pan is almost the same as cs5 on my macbook pro, but there are times when it is a little slower than cs5, which isn't the biggest deal on my more powerful computer but is a big deal on my Air.

Chris, is there any way this driver issue will be resolved in subsequent PS CS6 updates at all?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

We're not sure yet. We may just blacklist those driver versions and use simpler GPU settings for those GPUs and drivers. (because it may be a long time before Apple releases better driver)

9 Messages

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130 Points

I also upgraded to CS6 and have been experienceing hesitation and slowness beyond belief. I have a brand new, 12 core MacPro running Lion, 64 GB RAM, and an Nvidia Quadro 4000 graphics card.

CS6 app is loaded onto a SSD, while the scratch disks are the drives that come with the computer. Yet when I work on very large files (12-15 GB), with multiple layers (over 100 if I count each 1-6 word text layer), I experience 8-10+ second delays switching from layer to layer. Switching tools can take up to 20 seconds, and the tool will keep snapping back to the previous one while I try several times to pick the tool I want -- until it finally let's me choose the tool I want. Waiting for layers and tools to switch costs me an enormous amount of time every day, which in turn is costing thousands of dollars.

I have read through articles about optimizing CS6 and have followed all those directions, but have experienced no improvement. I spent thousands on my new computer thinking that it would make working with CS6 easier, but no.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd sure appreciate them.

9 Messages

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156 Points

9 years ago

I downloaded Ray's file and experienced the following:

There are speed improvements in CS6. However, there are also slowdowns.

Faster in CS6, slower in CS5:
* Opening the file (dramatic difference)
* Panning/Scrolling (subtle but palpable difference)

Faster in CS5, slower in CS6:
* Dragging a layer or group of layers
* Screen refresh/redraw when turning a layer/layer group on and off

I've optimized my CS6 settings as suggested in this thread, so the dragging around of layers and screen redraw when turning layers on/off are *tolerable* enough in CS6 that I can now spend the majority of my time in it, but they it certainly doesn't match up with CS5 performance in those two specific areas for me.

I'm on a MacBook Pro; have posted my full system info earlier above.

9 Messages

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156 Points

Also forgot to mention that applying free transforms to a layer/layer group is also slower in CS6.

7 Messages

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132 Points

9 years ago

I previously had problems with Photoshop CS6 under OSX Lion - especially with large files with multiple layers (and especially with shape layers).

Essentially moving multiple items became very slow when any size thumbnail was turned on in the Layers palette. I know this is a widely reported problem.

Well this was solved for me by buying a new Mac with a much better graphics card!

Now I've updated to Mountain Lion and the slowness has returned - moving single items around is jerky. Moving multiple items around is extremely slow.

Once again the problems disappear if I turn off thumbnails in the Layers palette.

Sigh.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Photoshop CS6 slowness returns after update to OS X Mountain Lion.