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48 Messages

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1.3K Points

Tue, Dec 1, 2015 8:13 PM

Photoshop CC 2015.1: New user interface lacks contrast and many usability cues, lots of other problems

I just updated to Photoshop CC(2015) version 2015.1. Adobe changed the UI to the flat look you see on phones and tablets. I do not see any way to select the classic interface, which I'm sure many desktop users of PS prefer.

This feels yet another attempt by Adobe to be trendy without caring about what users want or need. Didn't they learn anything from the dumbed-down Lightroom import fiasco?

Responses

4 Messages

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226 Points

5 years ago

Hi Fellow Frustrated Photoshop Users,

I chatted with tech support and got this link, telling how to download previous versions from the CC desktop app.

Scroll down to #5
https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-clou...

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

And if you're a Mac user, you've got an even more precise way. By using Time Machine, you can go back to any version you want - including CC 2015 version 16.0.1, which is more recent and has the same interface as 15.0.

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

Good idea, Roger. Do you just need to enter TimeMachine from the Applications folder and roll back in time, or do you also need to do the same thing for the Application Support folder, too?

13 Messages

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506 Points

You'll need to get the support folder too Robert, rather than just the Photoshop app itself.

Good luck - it's a very simple procedure using Time Machine.

23 Messages

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516 Points

Please chat to an Adobe representative, they will help you online and control your computer to downgrade. I did it and it was a really good support but it took more than an hour. I suggest all of you do this so they know this is a very big problem for many users that will need a serious fix.

16 Messages

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1.1K Points

It's not a downgrade if it's an improvement :)

6 Messages

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220 Points

5 years ago

I want to also thank David for giving us some insight into the development issues and results. After reading his post, it occurs to me that what were experiencing is Adobe's business problem and the fact that also they 'listen to their customers', theyre decisions are Adobe centric and not user or pro-user centric.

The recent carving out of a new user UI that is Adobe based is the first example of how Adobe has decided to act as a third rail between two major OS systems, I saw it creep into Acrobat Pro, and that product has become very frustrating to deal with especially when it comes to interacting with the Mac OS. Multiple steps are needs to open and save documents now, wheras before, it was tightly integrated with Apple's GUI standards.

Secondly, we can see Adobe in general, just ignoring the voices in the forum thread, and they've been growing for some time. The appearance of programs like Pixemator and Affinity are a testament to a desire for what Adobe programs excelled at, and they are surpassing Adobe in terms of customer interaction and developing features and add-ons that INTEGRATE with OS advantages, not compete with them.

Lastly, I'll simply address the business itself. Adobe has excellent , mature products that need constant attention to comply and work flawlessly with OS changes. However, they seem to have taken a posture to decided that they will innovate and make integration decisions regardless of their impact on the community. This I believe is their own acknowledgement that they really have little new to offer that isn't in the mobile app space and an acknowledgement that their internal teams 'need to innovate for the sake of innovation' versus innovate to actually solve a problem or fulfill a need.

Affinity just came out with 6 plugins for OS X Photos integration. Now there's a need that is being solved. Are you on the ground, Adobe or more comfortable in the corporate fortress?

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

5 years ago

All true, Andrew. While we're at it, I want to point out another area in which Adobe veers wildly off course from Mac OS in their effort to unify their code base. The issue I'm referring to is locating files within the Adobe apps.

Have you noticed how Adobe apps frequently lose track of where your files are located on your hard drive?

Try this in an app that is programmed to MacOS standards: Pixelmator. Let's say you create your Pixelmator document and save it to the Desktop. Switch to Finder and drag the file to anywhere you want, including a cloud location like Dropbox or iCloud, then go back into Pixelmator. Cmd click the titlebar and you'll see that the app has instantly found the new location of the file. That's because file-tracking is a Mac OS level feature and app developers need not concern themselves with it.

Try the same thing in any Adobe app. Try moving your files from say, your documents folder, to a different folder in Finder, Adobe apps go completely nuts. They instantly lose the file location and you must manually relink the files inside of Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightroom, etc..

There is just no justification for this. It's _extra_ work for the dev team to write their own file location code and it doesn't work as well as the code you get for free from Apple.

16 Messages

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1.1K Points

5 years ago

@David Tristam



I've created the above graphic to help explain an important UX concept your team doesn't seem to understand. I'm focusing on the dropdown box, but I really want it to be clear that this isn't the sole problem. The new iconography itself is too similar to each other and vague. I've been using Photoshop since version 6 and with every new UI change I've either really liked it or hardly noticed. But I've NEVER had issues finding something that hasn't moved before.

While making the above image I had enough time to say out loud "Where's the paint brush at", as I scanned over the general location that I'm used to finding it under. Several times I thought it was the History Brush, or perhaps hidden behind another tool. For some reason the design of the new icons cause my focus to be drawn away from that area.

Iconography is a very difficult task and it typically only works after training someone on the meaning that those symbols are meant to represent. What you have is decades of training on how to recognize the symbolism of the application destroyed for trendy styles that will NEED to be replaced again in a year when they look dated and old. Changing them gives no benefit to the user, and in fact is detrimental as it forces you to re-train loyal customers on a worse version.



I'll note that when the toolbar is in single-column mode, it's much easier to find things that are difficult to find in two-column mode. But I will NEVER be in single column mode. The overall context of icon grouping is better conveyed in two columns and it worked great in every one of the previous versions.

There are no redeemable features to this change except perhaps a technical foundation for better supporting different HDPI resolutions. But the visual affordances lost do not assist in this gain. The harder to visually digest icons, do not have any bearing on this (seriously, no one would know that's a bandaid or eraser, just awful). The lower contrast does not help you on a technical level. The loss of identifier cues used to differentiate modes, like Quick Mask, don't help you on a technical level.

Everything about this update needs revised. Hire me to do UX for Adobe. I will work cheap, and you guys obviously need a sanity check in the room.

16 Messages

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1.1K Points

The first graphic also indicates why the new rounded corner buttons are bad. Despite looking straight up ugly, they have a smaller clickable surface area and require greater accuracy, as their hitbox is obscured with arbitrary UI embellishments.

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

Plus, the rounded corner buttons are wildly inconsistent. Select "New..." and you get the strange new interface buttons, but select "Open..." and you get the old familiar OS-based open dialog.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

Robert and Jared, I'm in awe. This is tremendous work, it sizes up perfectly the nature of the beast.

6 Messages

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220 Points

5 years ago

apparently Adobe likes the fortress. They deleted my post on the business case for ruining the interface. So be it. I'm responding with a cancellation of the Creative Cloud Annual Subscription for my business.

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

5 years ago

My post on the same topic was also deleted.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

5 years ago

Hello Chris, David and David from Adobe,

May I respectfully ask why a number of posts were deleted last night? I understand that this is Adobe's right as this is a private website, maintained by Adobe to help customers. But it would be nice if we had a way to consult the contents of the deleted entries, as is done on some other discussion groups, unless of course they're downright offensive.

I have a reasonable idea about what was in them through my emails, but I can't be sure. From what I can see, most of us are very loyal Adobe customers. I for one have been a Photoshop fan for twenty-five years. Strangely, we possibly care more about the product than you do. We are your bread and butter, pros that know quite a lot about UI and ease of use. Please use your right of deleting entries as rarely as possible. Once again, you may have been right, I'm not sure.

MY LAST WORD ABOUT THE UI
I'm making myself a promise: this will be my very last entry in this thread.

I'm not sure at all that Adobe on one side, and us on the other, really understand each other. Consider the following points:
• You absolutely MUST roll back that horrendous interface. No way around it, it's a huge, terrible, disconnected mistake.
• You should integrate with OS X and Windows. You've chosen otherwise, we can live with it even if we don't like it... as long as it is usable, which it is not right now.
• You've mentioned "touch-friendly". I don't know for sure, but I'm ready to bet that most of us are not interested. Don't demolish the UI for THAT. See, the one that gets too near my 30 in monitors immediately gets a warning! Don't touch to my beautiful, glare-free monitors! So you may have such a problem, but so sorry it is none of our concern.
• Don't go halfway, it's too late for that: roll back the entire interface, whatever the cost. If you choose not to, we will do it for you as many of us have already done including me, by installing a previous version, either 16.0.1 (my case) or 15.

This is no laughing matter. I could not stretch the point too much: you have absolutely no choice. If you choose to keep even part of this horrible UI, the furore of your customers will deafen you.

Nobody wants you to go down in the History books as having created the worst interface ever. Back to work now, I've lost too much time already. And with 16.0.1 installed on my Mac Pro, the smile is back in my face.

116 Messages

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2.3K Points

Aww, don't go; we will really miss hearing more about your precious 30 inch monitors. Did you say you have TWO of them? Wow! Are they shiny?

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

Hey Kris, I'm still following through my email thread... but by Jove, can't afford to lose much more time. I've got some work to do before Christmas, "art-style" (the most time consuming. Yeah, I know about the monitors, that's a lot of expensive, calibrated real estate, but almost essential for final post-processing, when you get rid of every spot and such. The only drawback is losing your pointer somewhere. :-)

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Posts that are off topic, or violate the site's terms of usage are removed. The posts in question were way off topic.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

Thanks for the info Chris. I now have the feeling that you guys are really listening to what we have to say. I also understand that Adobe's employees like you are between a rock and a hard place. Your team has worked hard on this but we reject the result... not easy.

At the same time, I will never stress the point too much: all in all, over the years Adobe has come up with a very good, very solid piece of software. Most of us I'm sure like Photoshop very much and want to keep on using it. Most off us have used it for a very long time, in my case more than twenty years. That's one loyal customer. I write this to put things into perspective. It's not Photoshop per se. I like the steady progress Photoshop is making on many fronts, it's important to say this.

The only thing really wrong is this interface, I will never use it, over my dead body.

You know what would make me, and probably most of this raucous bunch that we are, very happy? Simply tell us: "OK guys, we got the point, we'll do it".

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

All I can tell you is that we are listening.

58 Messages

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1.9K Points

Chris..."We are listening" sounds like a politician who then actually does nothing. I can say that 100% of PS CC users I know truly can't stand the new UI. It is confusing, inconsistent and just plain hard to use...it's just like a bad Beta project. Just provide a 'classic interface' option so we can get back to work.

31 Messages

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410 Points

He is a politician, but I have noticed some small things that suggest they _are_ listening for a change in regards to this issue. They screwed up, hopefully they learn from this mistake. I think we'll see some fixes/options soon.

58 Messages

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1.9K Points

5 years ago

Dear Adobe, you have to admit that when Microsoft Paint looks better you guys got it wrong.

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

The flat style is what Win10 has for it's system icons. The advantage Windows has over Photoshop is color. If PS had lots of colored icons it'd distract from the image being edited, so the monochrome flat is it.

As for the lines under instead of boxes around, yeah, that's different, but really is it that bad? The drop-down selections don't allow clicking on the item text, anyway, just the little arrow at the right, so the graphic, earlier, about confidence isn't really applicable to DDLs, to type-ins, yes.

58 Messages

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1.9K Points

Nothing will EVER convince me this current PS interface is anything but a grand failure.

72 Messages

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1.4K Points

5 years ago

After working for the last days with the new UI, there are two things that need to be changed or improved.
First
The visibility of quickmask layers
Second the two steps it takes to change numeric values with sliders.

72 Messages

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1.4K Points

Every colleague I have spoken to wonders who is the test audience you are using ?

29 Messages

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744 Points

That's what I'm wondering too.

13 Messages

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506 Points

I don't know who the test audience is, but I'll tell you who it isn't - it isn't anyone who has to actually use the bloody thing every day. And what is this "touch screen" nonsense - what pro in their right mind would work with Photoshop on a touch screen device?

Anyway, they seem to have the message now so maybe something might be done about it. That doesn't matter to me as I've rolled-back to 16.0.1, but they will have to make major changes - and I mean major - for me to ever use it again.

What an absolute shambles and it's such a shame.

3 Messages

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170 Points

Indeed, I've also rolled back to 16.0.1 from a Time Machine backup. Given that I've now retired from commercial photography and have less of a need for PS, I'm trialling alternatives, especially as the UK magazine MacFormat have just given away a copy of the latest version of Pixelmator. Of course, it isn't Photoshop, but only love of and a familiarity of PS is keeping me around.

116 Messages

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2.3K Points

Quick Mask is a mode, not a type of layer. You can still change the opacity of a layer with one click by scrubbing the label (the word "Opacity") or by clicking and holding on the dropdown arrow and scrubbing the slider.

72 Messages

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1.4K Points

@ Chris Cox and @ Kris Hunt,
yes I still can change the opacity by scrubbing, which leaves me all the way over to the left or right. If I stop I have to go to the number again
But it should be..."now you can even do this improved thing"... rather than saying at least whats left you still can do scrubbing.
In my opinion it is clearly a step backwards and it should be a step forward.
In general I think that if one wants to make the UI as user friendly as possible, there should even be the option of color coding certain areas, tools, etc,
At least the usability should never be sacrificed against a slicker design.
Maybe its a good idea if the design team tests the noticeability of tools, areas and text of the UI in more detail with more testers.

116 Messages

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2.3K Points

I don't understand what you can't do now that you could do one version ago. As far as I can tell, only the look of the UI has changed; not the way it works.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

You don't understand, Kris? It's rather simple: You are right. And wrong.

Yes, you can do all the things you could do. Bravo, I hoped for at least that.

No you're wrong, because, see, that is not what we are talking about. It as nothing but nothing to do with the Photoshop machinery, or engine if you want.

Oh yes it works. It works like an ugly car with dirty windows in the middle of the night. It's killing my eyes.

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

One doesn't expect to pay a lot for an ugly car.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

"One doesn't expect to pay a lot for an ugly car" You got that one right Robert.

116 Messages

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2.3K Points

I'm referring to Andi's claim that she can no longer change opacity values with one click. We both seem to have confirmed that it still works the same way as before; it only looks different.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

5 years ago

OK, I admit it, that's the second time I break my promise to stay away from this thread. It seems to be a pointless promise, so sorry.

Bob Laughton, in a comment just above, brings a very important point I think. I would perhaps put it in slightly different words, the meaning being the same though:

• What kind of setup does a certain customer use? A laptop? A 21-23 in monitor? One or more 27-30 in monitor? And what's the resolution?
• Perhaps more important: is it a glossy screen or a matte one?

One or two big matt screens will give you a greater challenge than a smaller glossy one as far as reading small text is concerned. I'f I'm not mistaken, the pros will use bigger, often matte monitors, and those will end up like me squinting at small gray text on a palette away from them in a corner of a big screen.

At the end, it's all about not breaking habits uselessly for one, and more important, legibility for two. For comparison purposes, I include here 3 screenshots:
1. A pane from OS X System Preferences
2. Part of the Smart Sharpen pane with its small greyish text
3. An iPad screenshot from Adobe Photoshop Mix, in which text is absolutely, deliriously perfect!







Interestingly, depending on whether the title is for a checkbox, or field text, or drop-down menu, it will be difficult to read, or not. It depends, and I don't see any reason why. All text should be legible and gray is rarely easy to read.

29 Messages

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744 Points

It seems they tried to do something cool rather than usable. Of course they failed both tasks.

27 Messages

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1.2K Points

5 years ago

I was one of 3 retouchers elected to test the latest CC2015 at the retouching studio I work in. We have all rolled back to the previous version.

The UI is simply too hard to work with. Menu items and buttons we use constantly and instinctually, have been changed to look greyed out - the universal language of all things unavailable or broken.

The level of concentration it takes to focus on this conflicting and unintuitive UI is directly in conflict with our worlkflow and speed requirements.

The fact that we can barely tell the difference between a selected layer and a selected layer in quick mask mode is reason enough to roll back. Active selected layers need a MUCH more differentiated appearance from quick mask.

29 Messages

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744 Points

So you tested it and you were not satisfied with it? Right? And as you were unsatisfied, I think also many other pros were unsatisfied as well, so how did this abomination pass?

27 Messages

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1.2K Points

Yes, many are obviously unsatisfied. However, I see no point in using disparaging language to describe the efforts of Adobe's design team. Is it hard to work with? Yes. Will my team of 50 be using it? Not in its current state. But a more calm, reasoned explanation of the issues will get Adobe's ear than a bunch of name calling and foot stomping.

72 Messages

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1.4K Points

Thanks Rob, that's exactly what I was trying to say. I still keep wondering why I got an answer that seemed to be written for a beginner. (I do have a retouching company in New York since 7 years, and work with Photoshop 8 hours a day).
Andi

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

Rob, I for one never said it was an abomination, though I can understand the exasperation, which comes mainly from the feeling that this thing is s-l-o-w moving.

I have been very vocal in saying I would never accept this UI. Politely. And with examples (others are coming later today. And the truth is that I cannot understand how this UI came to be "inflicted on us without any warning" if this is polite enough. And the best answer I got, which was much better than nothing at all, was "We are listening".

That is, I mean, before you. What you just wrote is one gem of info and is says quite a lot. It is polite but very,m very direct. It is, plain and simple, the equivalent of "Guys, what have you done!".

Remember Windows 8.0? Remember the clamour? Microsoft understood the message pretty fast. I hope that the same will happen here.

Because, you know, this UI cannot be easy for a guy like me.

Not at my age.

156 Messages

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4.3K Points

5 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled don't like the new Photoshop UI.

I have serious problems with the new UI.

I do not like dark interfaces (I do a lot of work that is destined for the Press) and the new grey-on-grey UI is giving me severe eye-strain: so much so that my eyes stream after a few hours.

InDesign is even worse!

The type is FAR too small; and grey-on-grey may look elegant to the UI designer who was responsible for it but it is a total nightmare for the customer who is trying to work with it.

Also, the new icon designs are deplorable:
I do everything with KBSCs but I often cannot distinguish which subset of a tool I have actually selected from those really badly designed icons.

The previous UI was both elegant and practical: unfortunately the new one is not.

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: PHOTOSHOP CC 2015.1.1 - Problems with UI and crashes.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Don't forget you can change the UI brightness in Photoshop's preferences.
Yes, a lighter interface is more appropriate if you are working on something destined for print. And darker interfaces are generally only useful for people doing video and film production.

156 Messages

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4.3K Points

Indeed you can (and I have); but the type is still at 48,48,48 which is too light to provide sufficient contrast.
The background grey of the second-lightest skin is much too dark at 183,183,183 to be viable against the type which, in that skin, is even worse and appears to be running at 63,63,63 on my machine.
That skin would normally be my choice but I am now having to use the lightest version from necessity.

23 Messages

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516 Points

Changing the UI doesn't help because all the elements have too similar color. Lines separating the layers, for example, are almost the same color as the background in the panel, so the names of the layers are easily readable but not each item as a separated thing themselves. I'm not interested in reading the layers name as much as seeing the different items in a panel and items in a glimpse.

23 Messages

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516 Points

5 years ago

I had to contact Adobe customer support to downgrade, the actual UI is unusable, plain as that. Everything is a gray blurry mass where I can't find the actual buttons or options quickly as before.

All the panels look inactive!

It is a disaster!!

89 Messages

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1.9K Points

It is. And still no label in this thread, like "in progress".

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

Hello Carola, welcome to the club. As I see it, this thread regroups (pro) users that mostly cannot stand the new UI. I know that several Adobe employees are watching this thread very closely. The way I see it, it's up to us to prove our point, by arguments, by numbers, by rolling back to a previous version, whatever.

What is confusing is the fact that obviously the Photoshop team did this to create a better product. Unfortunately they got in the eyes of many the worst of all results.

How come? I'fe been thinking about this for a week now and have several ideas, some new angles at least, that I will write here tonight.

Obviously Adobe and us do not see eye to eye on this. It must be as difficult for them to understand our point of view as it is for us to understand how they came up with this Ui. Not easy for us, but certainly not easy for them either, obviously.

The main thought that goes through my mind right now is: "Wat a mess. Now, how do we fix that?" Or, how do they fix that, hopefully with our help?

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

I rolled back to the previous version. My main complaint remains the gray text on gray background mess. Hardly any contrast at all. Adobe should to make it -more- integrated with host OS, not less.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The more specific issues you can identify with the new UI, the better.

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

Ok. 1) it's got weird round rect open/new/save buttons that don't match the Windows or Mac standards. 2) it has non-standard edit-text fields and drop down menus that just look like static noneditable text. 3) the gray on similar shade of gray is very difficult to see.

On a positive note, I like the ability to scroll past the edge of the document edges. That's a welcome change.

5 Messages

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206 Points

@Chris - Not sure why this is still being discussed. As many people have mentioned, start again with the UI and ensure the people responsible are delegated roles with far less 'creative freedom' over an application that is used by millions of design professionals across the world on a daily basis.

The phrase 'the customer is always right' could not be more true in your position; where the people using your software are the people who lead the industry in which you cater for. If it has really gotten to the point where we have to point out every issue 1 by 1 then you should already have plenty to work with by now, but just to chime in: http://cl.ly/02152d3C0p3j - How is making the layer selected state a greyed out tone (previously used for Quick Mask) an enhancement to usability? It's things like this that really make me wonder what is going on.

I would honestly love to help out and compose a list of all these kinds of flaws but it would genuinely take up too much time, if that doesn't say something then I don't know what will. Revert and try again.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

I can only bring specific issues to discuss with the XD team who designed the new UI.

72 Messages

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1.4K Points

Chris, I remember you helped with a technical issue in the past by writing a plugin very fast for a mouse delay. I wonder why is the XD team not here on board.

58 Messages

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1.9K Points

Chris, here is one specific issue: The ENTIRE new interface. Seriously just allow us to wind back to the original OS based interface instead of this current confusing barely legible abomination. None of us are against moving forward with the times but this stupid UI is 20 steps backwards. I'm still struggling to believe the world's premier image processing and publishing software company really thought this UI would be even ok with users. It is actually terrible.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Bruce - no, that is not specific, nor something that we can discuss with our XD team. We really need specific issues.

116 Messages

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2.3K Points

Chris, let me respectfully turn that question on its head: what specific reasons did the design team have for making the UI this way? Or was it simply change for the sake of change? Because that's what it seems like to all of us.

23 Messages

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516 Points

In the new UI, the layers look like a paragraph, not like a list of items, this is my main problem. The lines separating each item in the layers panel are too dim, and do not have enough contrast, so it takes effort and time to differentiate between elements. Way more than in the previous UI.

Also, the input fields also look like any other regular label or element, so it's difficult to point and click quickly to change a value as before, where I had a withe background and before my eyes got to the filed my hand already was in there.

You know, in my laptop 13" and my iMac 27" even though I'm so used to work with Photoshop, my eyes need visual hints to pint and click more than the real content, I don't want to be reading the panels to use them, or pay much attention to them. It's like using them almost in an unattended fashion. Sorry for this awkward explanation but it's my best sentence in English which is not my mother tongue :D

Bottom line: All the UI colors are so similar that I can't find things in a glimpse like before, there is no visual hierarchy, more contrast is needed. Lines and items are not clear to the eye, everything looks the same color like it is inactive.

23 Messages

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516 Points

+ Even in the white option, lines, buttons and elements are in a too light gray that makes everything look the same. And I don't like the white or dark options, dark theme is tiring for my eyes and white is much too bright after a long use.

23 Messages

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516 Points

+ Even in the white option, lines, buttons and elements are in a too light gray that makes everything look the same. And I don't like the white or dark options, dark theme is tiring for my eyes and white is much too bright after a long use.

23 Messages

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516 Points

It would be way easier for me to use the new UI if it was like this:
http://cl.ly/2J0N0C0Z0d2O

23 Messages

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516 Points

Aside from the new buttons in the dialogs which are not like the rest of the system UI, but at least changing this it would be great.

23 Messages

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516 Points

It would be way easier for me to use the new UI if it was like this: http://cl.ly/2J0N0C0Z0d2O/fix.jpg

Aside from the new buttons in the dialogs which are not like the rest of the system UI, but at least changing this it would be great.

23 Messages

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516 Points

It would be way easier for me to use the new UI if it was like this: http://f.cl.ly/items/0E3p08041f2y0p2b...

Aside from the new buttons in the dialogs which are not like the rest of the system UI, but at least changing this it would be great.

23 Messages

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516 Points

(Sorry for the edits, I'd like to paste the image directly but can't and it's not really friendly to rearrange anything you posted in here...)

3 Messages

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144 Points

5 years ago

I updated today and its not just ugly, its a pain in the a** to work with PS now.
WHY CHANGE A WINNER???
I hope its possible to change the interface back.

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

Because Apple and Microsoft changed how their OS icons look which is flat and without color.

As far as usability, is it the lack of color or the lack of shadows that make the icons hard to work with?

The program icons are flat but still have color to them.

58 Messages

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1.9K Points

Personally I don't feel comfortable (as many others have also said) with the whole gray on gray look. My entire PS workflow has slowed down as I now have to squint to read almost everything. Toolbar boxes have become underscore lines, as one example, and many other items are almost illegible. Not happy.

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

I have either white-on-dark or black-on-light unless things are disabled then they're gray. This is on Windows 10 on a 1680x1050-res monitor. Maybe a much higher-res monitor is harder to read if the anti-aliasing is too strong and the text isn't crisp.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

5 years ago

"I can only bring specific issues to discuss with the XD team who designed the new UI."

Hello Chris,

This is exactly what I feared. If I understand you correctly, and feel free to correct me, there is no special move inside Adobe, no sense of urgency, about this UI that we have repeatedly qualified, not very elegantly I admit, as a disaster. I am sorry but there should be such a movement right now. Or maybe there is one, and then who would be in the know? Are we all losing time and effort here?

To put it bluntly, if Photoshop was a car, it would have a lot of competition, and it would not sell at all in this state. Period.

Always bluntly: Photoshop is a monopoly, and this means that Adobe must, it's a moral obligation, gives us a product we can use. It's a matter of ethics.

Not I need to write an intro to the arguments that will follow. At the end it will be rather longish. Print it and tell THEM to read it.

INTRO
Over the last two decades, monitors have become bigger and bigger. With 30 in. monitors, specially when you have two, that means that some palettes are way too far in their actual state.

At the same time, pixel resolution has gone from around 72 dpi to around 100-110 for 27-30 in monitors that are not 4K or 5K. This means that not only things are now farther, they are also smaller, WHILE THE USER IS FARTHER AWAY.

To compound all this, a portion or your users are now older as is my case. While I still have a very good eyesight at 70 years old, it's no way as good as when I was 30!

If, on top of those well known trends, the interface becomes way harder to read and use, when grey becomes the norm and text size 9 becomes the norm, disaster strikes.

This intro is in no way specific.

It is simply crucial.

Print it and hammer it on the walls of the UI designers' offices. Find the guy that is in "the need to know" and tell him. We need a link of some sort, a direct link. Or choose some users you could trust in this bunch. I for one would spend a couple of days free of charge to explain the extent of the damage that has been done.

MAJOR CHANGES NEEDED
It doesn't matter much to me that the UI be Mac-like or Windows-like. They are very similar nowadays anyway. Create a UI along those lines, somewhere like Mac and/or Windows, and you will be back on tract.

Do not use grey on grey, not for text, it's such a pain that one wants to cry. Black on white, you know, like books, Or almost all good, major websites like Microsoft, Apple, lapresse.ca, lefigaro.fr, lemonade.fr, the BBC, the Guardian, ad nauseam.

A text field is a text field is a text field and should look like such. Idem for a pull-down menu, a checkbox, and BUTTONS. Gives us back buttons, real buttons.

Tell somebody in the need to know that they must do all that.

SPECIFIC CHANGES
By God, I'm overwhelmed. There are too many. They are all about the UI, not the main Photoshop machinery that gets better and better.

1. In the Preferences, crank up one point the text size in the left column. While you're at it, do the same thing everywhere in the interface where you got text that is too small. It was the same in the preferences in the previous version but at least it was black on white, not black on grey,

2. In the Prefs and elsewhere, get the char size the same as the rest for the title of a pull-down menu. No reason to make our lives harder for that specific type of control.

3. In the Prefs look at "Recen File List Contains:" You just went from small black to almost illegible.

4. You give the choice of four "skins". In fact, the two in the middle are unusable because their grey on grey is too much of a stress.

5. Everywhere in the interface: Go back to buttons we can relate with. A default button must be clearly a default button. Its colour or something should be clear.

6. When the user hits Return for the default button, the button should flash for a short period of time, showing the user that there is no mistake. None of the default buttons react visually to a keyboard shortcut at the moment.

7. Let's have a look at the HDR Toning dialogue, it's an example in point.
• Do it any way you want, but bring bath the text as legible as it was. Bring it back as black as it was!
• Bring back the old sliders. The new ones are greyer than a bad November day in Northern Québec.
• The buttons...

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

That should be enough for the time being, don't you think?

And you know what? I'm now ready to bet a bottle of Château La Tour Carnet 2010 from my cellars that I am losing time and effort here, and it fills me with sadness. There is absolutely no feeling of complicity, of being part of something. Let's not this thing become THEM against US.

As said before, my tool is not 16.0,1 that is quite good.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

That is a pretty good start. But you could provide a few more specifics about why the new sliders don't work well, and why the buttons are causing you problems.

58 Messages

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1.9K Points

Chris, to save time I would humbly suggest your UI design team simply reads all these posts. As others have said before, the latest UI appears to be a change for change sake, with no advantage whatsoever to the user...in fact it is a hindrance to workflow.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

They are reading them - but most don't have any specific issues that can be acted on.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

Chris, I understand your dilemma. You're here on Saturday night, almost Christmas, trying to cope with us - and them. That's it, eh? You have to cope with us and them both?

At the same time, I despair we will be able to get our point across. I'm known as a rather articulate man, but here I am at a loss. At the same time, English is not my language, I hope you can understand my "charabia".

Several guys have put it plainly:

• The UI in 16.0.1 was maybe not perfect or ideal (what is?), but it was good, we could work with it without too much strain on the eyes.

• Then comes 16.1 in which, without any warning whatsoever, the UI went berserk. Nobody had any idea it was coming, no warning, no nothing, everybody thought here comes a minor update making things a bit better about everywhere. But bang! This. Had we known it in advance, we would have politely said that we were opposed to it and we would not have downloaded it. End of story.

But now, even if the majority of us has either gone back to a previous version or is looking feverishly for a way to do it, we're kind of caught in this maelstrom.

Quite frankly, the whole interface has many many many problems that relate almost all to legibility.. Too many. They really went hard at it.

They did the previous versions and proved they could do it, right? Nobody can tell us that they cannot, they can. Bu God it will take a whole load of humility,, this forgotten virtue.

They have to reboot the whole process. And make us happy again. And I mean again, because we were happy with the product, the very good product that Photoshop had become, the King. Give us the King again.

If they dont get it, then they have to meet with some of us, with our own equipment which is not always perfect, and have real people telling them "Look at your grey on grey, I can't stand it, I cannot".

Tonight I will put online two or three more examples with both 16.1 and 16.0.1 running simultaneously, showing mistakes and inconsistencies. But...

But the problem is global, not local.

13 Messages

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506 Points

Chris, your latest comment is the crux of the whole problem.

Adobe are obviously not prepared to waste the time and money they have already spent on the latest upgrade - but they really should. To paraphrase Bruce Thomas, the whole thing needs tearing down and starting from where we were and then adding any improvements. This isn't going to happen though, is it?

I think we all understand your problem with us just saying we don't like it, without a whole list of specifics, but I'm afraid you are just going to have to take our word for it.

In summary, having reverted to 16.0.1, I certainly won't be touching this upgrade until I hear something positive - which makes me question why I'm paying a monthly subscription now, when I already "owned" the version prior to CC?

Edit: I've just seen Roger's latest post while I was typing this. Surely you/they must now be getting the message loud and clear?

I would genuinely love to know who were the people this was tested on.

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

With all due respect, i understand that it's probably frustrating dealing with a group of users who speak in generalities, but from our perspective, what we hear is "please tell us how you would improve it and if you could provide code samples that would be even better". The specifics are Adobe's job, not ours.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

For us to get changes made, we really need specifics.

Nobody asked you to code anything - but without specific complaints to address, nothing will change.

38 Messages

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1.2K Points

Good natured sarcasm appears lost here. Please do away with the gray on gray. I used to like the medium gray theme, now I find it unusable because there is much less contrast than before. If you feel led to change up some icons, have at it, but there's really no need to.

116 Messages

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2.3K Points

> without specific complaints to address, nothing will change.

Gotta laugh at that one. Were people complaining about too much contrast in the UI before?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Actually, XD had specifics that they wanted to change. Without specific issues about the new UI design for us to bring to XD, they are not likely to change the design.

43 Messages

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1.2K Points

Chris, you're a scientist, aren't you? From one scientist to another, this line of reasoning doesn't work. We cannot discuss like this, the premises are wrong. Without the right premises, we'll get nowhere.

They want us to suggest changes to make a bad thing a bit less bad. In other words, they want us to start from THEIR product.

We're telling you, no. Start with the previous UI and then explain to us why something so drastically wrong has to be done.

I'm turning the tables a cute 180 degrees.

If they stick to their guns, as I told you, they will have a victory à la Pyrrhus. A victory à la Napoléon over the burned Russian steppes. What a victory! A victory with all the seeds of defeat.

I have dumped Lightroom for cause of non readability. I have dumped 16.1 for reasons not as bad but near it.

I abandon this useless discussion slowly evolving in a battlefield,never to come back. I will never use their ridiculous UI I swear it. I swear it. Never.

After the word below, I'm gone. Good luck with a doomed interface.

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

I hope you reproduced the CTL-TAB bug. Here we get it on every machine. Tomorrow James Longster from Indiana comes here for a couple of weeks to cool in head in the snow. He also reproduces the bug at whim.

Adios, I'm stopping following this completely.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Roger - imagine if you said "relativity is all wrong" without any specific evidence? How would that be treated by other scientists? If you had specific evidence, they might listen. With just hand waving and nothing specific, they will not even start to listen.

We really need specifics about the new UI to bring to the XD team.

5 Messages

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206 Points

When the time comes for a User Experience Design team to consider themselves too high & mighty to actually read and respond to floods of real *user* feedback then surely a change of job title is in order?

As a power user spending upwards of 10 hours of day in the shop I am not only extremely disappointed with the latest update, but astonished at the level of incompetence involved in some of these unwarranted visual changes that have had a detrimental effect on overall readability and accessibility.

Respect to you for having the decency to follow this thread and respond personally Chris, but as I expressed in my initial reply - they should be ashamed of themselves. If nothing more I would be very grateful if you could relay that message to them.

58 Messages

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1.9K Points

Chris (and I also thank you for being involved), just one of the many UI 'bugs' that is a workflow negative is the simple omission of a 'hover' state on buttons. There is no indication whether or not a button is clickable until it is actually clicked. Small I know but soooo annoying. There are many 'improvements' (lol) that now require a double take to proceed and each one takes a little more time and frustration that adds up at the end of a busy day. As someone else said keep Photoshop for the pros who use REAL monitors, needing a fast, accurate, easy to read interface and save the cruddy flat gray on gray touch interface for the cheaper cousins of PS. We don't want it!

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Bruce - thank you for the specific issues.

107 Messages

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2.7K Points

Chris, can you give us a clue as to what or when a remedy might be in the future? As a teacher and one who records screen captures, if this interface is only temporary, I will revert back to a previous version. But if our future will remain gray, I'll suck it up and deal with it.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Nope. We have to talk about the issue internally to see what can be done.