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Adobe Photoshop Family

30 Messages

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894 Points

Fri, Feb 21, 2020 8:02 PM

Adobe, Are you listening to us?

Adobe,


Like many others, I have been using Photoshop professionally for many years.



In my case, 20 years.


Over the past several versions, there has been a sharp decline in usability, and overall performance.


Just to name a few very basic issues:


The default behavior of the transform tool has been changed, which is pivotal to all-things in Photoshop. We now have a tool that works some ways for certain objects like vector shapes, and then again totally differently for raster assets. Move over to something like Xd, and the transform tool is totally different, yet again. We shouldn't have to adjust things just to have a tool that works the way we've grown to expect.


We also now have a type tool that doesn't work well anymore. We can't even move text around without inadvertently selecting the text in the process of simply trying to move it.


Performance is now a disaster. Virtually all operations take significantly longer, sometimes 2,000 milliseconds or more, which is the ultimate usability killer.


I think I speak for a large portion of the professional, seasoned, user-base when I say that we really would like to see these fundamental things fixed before adding more features that aren't as critical as a functioning, performant, program.


It's frustrating to see that many of these basic issues (and more) have been brought up, yet we're still dealing with them many weeks and months later. The worst part is some of these problematic changes are intentional (aside from the performance issue, of course). 


Are you listening to us?


I can tell you that many of these changes are not conducive to how we've worked for decades and they're affecting our workday, everyday, in a negative way. 


Frankly, in the past, updates were seen as a good thing. Now, the first thing that's crossing our minds is that something is going to be broken, changed for the worst, or we're going to have yet more performance slowdowns, increasing the time it takes for us to do our jobs.


Please listen to us, we're here to help make things better. We've been patient. None of us want to have our important needs for basic fixes ignored while we see non-critical features released over and over, release after release.


Thank you for reading.



Responses

4 Messages

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538 Points

7 months ago

Oh. My. God. This.

I'm at a point of frustration with Photoshop now that I am losing my passion for editing. Seriously.
Every time I open Photoshop, I'm dealing with a battle of more glitches, more bugs, more wholly unnecessary changes and shifting/removal of features (have they been removed or are they just shifted, re-invented, not working because of a new bug? Who would know?)

Every time I open Photoshop, even for the most simple task, I end up on Google trying to work out how to do something that a couple of years ago I could have done blindfolded with one hand tied behind my back. It's an intense waste of time, it's frustrating, it's exhausting, and makes me long for the days where developers were about developing for improvement, not to meet some ADHD obsession with quantity over quality. Is it too much to ask that Adobe actually test their program for stability before just pumping it out onto the user?

For what it's worth, today's bug list is:
1) the add layer icon not functioning at all, totally broke, only remedy is restart (which is by no means "optimal"). Not just me: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/layer-panel-icons-not-responding;
2) click and drag not functioning - snaps to a corner of the canvas. Not just me: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/ps-21-1-every-drawing-action-snaps-to-upper-l...
3) the fancy big preview on the timeline that covers the work space so you can no longer adjust the length of your clip whilst actually SEEING what you're doing. An odd and very confusing "upgrade" taking usability down to exactly ZERO for the timeline. Thanks for that. https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop/cant-trim-extend-videos-with-drag/td-p/9961662?page=1

I haven't even started on Bridge, but it was clear years ago Photoshop couldn't give a rats about the usability of that program, so there's clearly no point reporting the plethora of bugs and lags there.

Maybe I wouldn't feel so utterly ripped off if I hadn't been spoiled by previous versions of Photoshop that excelled and inspired, and did so with a bit of good old fashioned stability.

Please wind back all the pretty makeovers, Photoshop, and start concentrating on getting the basics back up to scratch. Seriously... please.



30 Messages

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894 Points

Thanks for adding to the conversation, Blackpaw.

Champion

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3K Messages

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55.5K Points

Have you tried resetting the preferences and/or uninstalling/reinstalling? With all due respect, what you experience are not general bugs, but something specific to your system. If these things were really bugs that everyone experiences, then nobody would be able to work with Photoshop and that is simply not the case. I am not saying that Photoshop does not contain any bugs, but if things like clicking the new layer icon would not work for anybody, then this thread would have tens of thousands of messages by now.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

42 Messages

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1.4K Points

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

head/desk

4 Messages

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538 Points

Thanks for your suggestions, John. As per my post, there indeed were other people who already brought up these glitches before I encountered them, so apparently not isolated to my own system. I tried resetting/reinstalling. Repeatedly. I resolved most of my issues by reverting to the oldest version of PS that I could still access, and switching off auto-update. It's tolerable now.

I used to spend at least 3-4 hours a day working in PS for my small photography hobby-business. Now I'm lucky to open it to edit a single image maybe every second or third day. That is the literal impact on my workflow. It's like pushing sh*t uphill these days, whereas it used to feel like a luxurious pleasure to open every single day to lose myself in my photography.

And TBH, it wouldn't matter if I came here to seek assistance or not, because there is no assistance to be had (re:bugs), which essentially is one of the biggest problems with Adobe. If I wanted to become their client, they'll call me personally within a day. But when I need help to circumnavigate the latest bug, there's simply dead air space. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Nil.

And when Adobe release updates that make previously perfectly functioning features literally redundant (eg. timeline preview debacle - reported not just by me) whilst simultaneously providing no support, what then? And when they change how features work (eg. crop) for.... no reason???.... and everyone has to re-learn that skill, it wastes hours of user time, and makes hours of useful online tutorials redundant. And when they make once easy tasks (eg. defaults in ACR) into complicated processes it ends up quicker and easier not actually bothering with the feature than it is to re-learn how to do it. And for what? People like to whinge about change, sure, but it remains a fact that change for the sake of change is not always beneficial. Change is only good when it builds on something. It's not good when it degrades something.

I requested Adobe visit this thread and outlined issues felt over the increase in bugs and the absolute lack of support available. I spoke on the phone with an Adobe rep who assured me my issues would be passed to the relevant team. And what came back from that? Dead air space. Zip, Nada, Nil. I have since emailed again, but that too has fallen on deaf ears. Adobe just don't give a crap. It's that simple.

That's my two bob. I'll bow out now, knowing full well that it's pointless to even attempt to work with Adobe to improve this situation. Kudos to those who have no issues, or for whom resetting/reinstalling solves their issues. I wouldn't wish upon anyone the disappointment in store if your version and all updates thereafter become less and less functional. It's not a fun place to be.

Have a great day all,
:)

124 Messages

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2.3K Points

You've summed it up beautifully @Blackpaw. 
Updates are now to be feared, not embraced.
The ongoing issues are massive and the customer service, non existant.

7 Messages

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222 Points

7 months ago

I new at Adobe Photoshop and I too am finding it frustrating. Especially the I go to the latest post on you tube and do exactly what they say and the stuff does not work. Try to get official help from these sites and still things don't work. Seems like a ton go bugs for everything.

30 Messages

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894 Points

This is a great point Myron Partman. There are thousands of hours of tutorials that are helpful for new users. By unnecessarily changing default behavior to basic functionality that has been around for ages, portions of these are now confusing to users who are trying to learn.

18 Messages

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332 Points

7 months ago

I totally agree with Josh Kopinski on the feeling that comes over you when you see another dreaded update to PS.  

30 Messages

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894 Points

Thanks for chiming in, Gary.

30 Messages

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894 Points

To those who agree with this message thread, please post a short comment so this remains elevated for Adobe to read.

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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27.9K Points

7 months ago

Unfortunately, the user base has expanded considerably over the past few years and it's definitely starting to feel more and more like working professionals are being sidelined in favor of the majority, who are beginners.

30 Messages

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894 Points

Still feeling the pain.

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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27.9K Points

7 months ago

well, not unfortunate that there are more Ps users now! Just unfortunate that Adobe is focusing more on the new arrivals rather than the people using Ps 40 hours/wk, 50 weeks/yr.

42 Messages

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1.4K Points

7 months ago

I would upvote this a billion times if I could.

I've used Photoshop since version 3.0 and always considered myself lucky that I'm a freelance digital artist doing a job I love.

Photoshop and Adobe's negligence has made me hate my job. I loathe working in Photoshop now, and no matter how many times I delete preferences, reinstall the Creative Suite, reinstall Mac OS or whatever else Adobe's frankly useless support suggests, using Photoshop now is like swimming through bricks whilst someone throws stones at you. Photoshop is now by far the worst professional program I have to use, it is broken beyond belief.

It's not even about the money wasted on the CC sub now. I pay my CC sub every year in the hope that Photoshop will return to its former glory, but it gets worse annually to the point now where it is almost completely unusable. Basic, core tools and functionality is broken. Everywhere you look the program is glitching out, hanging, lagging and making your job harder instead of easier.  Every release introduces a litany of show-stopping bugs that are a nightmare in a professional environment, along with a bunch of gimmicky, trashy new features that no one wants or needs. I don't need stupid, brainless AI features when the brush tools don't even work properly any more.

Adobe, please, for the love of God, fix this once beautiful program. Photoshop was the thing that used to make me want to get out of bed in the morning and do my job. Now I actively avoid it whenever I can. You've taken an industry leading application and run it into the ground. I just don't understand how you've ruined Photoshop so badly, but after spending the day struggling with doing the most basic operations with it that I've been doing daily for over 20 years I need to vent. Even the lasso tool is inaccurate and unpredictable now. You've somehow broken almost everything.

Please,  Adobe. We are begging you. No more new features. Talk to us and optimise and fix Photoshop.

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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27.9K Points

i feel ya and understand. My job for the past 25 years is using Ps all day, every day as a retoucher and it's becoming more and more difficult to do my job as well.
On another forum, i recently asked for the same thing - a release which focuses only on bug-fixes and workflow improvements... it wasn't well received.

42 Messages

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1.4K Points

I think the problem now is Photoshop is a "franschise", a "brand" (so sick of everything being a "brand" these days...) and totally driven by marketing. Adobe are catering for the Insta edit crowd, the social influencers who need to create those insanely annoying thumbnails for their Youtube channels. That is their focus now with the dumbing down of tools (AI garbage that doesn't work properly but is a great marketing buzzword) that seasoned professionals have no interest in but are designed to appeal to bearded hipsters working out of  a coffee bar in Williamsburg editing their latest Insta shots on a Macbook.

18 Messages

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332 Points

7 months ago

I have a friend, now almost 91 years-old who was using Photoshop before it was named that.  He has been involved with photography since he was 10 years-old when his parents set up a dark room for him. He was a beta user for PS and later was asked to comment on early PS versions.  He has told me many times, when I complained about PS problems, that they never once did something he suggested.  So, the moral to this story is “Some things never change.”

30 Messages

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894 Points

At this point, things need to change.

This entire situation is reminiscent of how Apple used to cater to artists and designers. Designers were the ones who supported them and were loyal to them through thick and thin. Just like we have been for Adobe.

Then Apple became hyper-focused on pumping out cellphones while the community that they were built upon was left in the dust.

Aside from being a UI/UX designer, I also work in C4D (3D software). When the time came to invest heavily in hardware (years back), Apple had nothing modern to offer to meet the intense computational demand that's required for a 3D artist. They took their eye off the ball in the creative world. The best technology in their Mac Pro line was consistently several years behind the current wafer and GPU technology.

I, as well as many others in the industry, found ourselves turning to Windows machines for the horsepower that we needed. For a lot of us, we hadn't touched a Windows machine for 10-15 years plus. Microsoft and the PC side was there, showing that they were listening to a group that they knew was not being heard. They got our money, and long-term relationships started to form through those investments.

At this point, which I think you'll agree with, the majority of us would be happy with stable performance, and a solid working toolset like we've had in the past.

We don't need any new "groundbreaking" features right now, and we don't want any changes to fundamental things we've spent years building muscle memory for.

I digress and prefer to stay on topic, as this is an important message, so I'll stop there.

But thanks for chiming in, and your 'ol friend sounds like an interesting fella!

42 Messages

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1.4K Points

C4D artist here too and fully understand how you felt about being abandoned by Apple. I'm not convinced their new Mac Pro is the answer for us either. Apple really don't have a compelling computer for anyone with one foot in design/imaging and the other in 3D, especially if you're into GPU rendering.

With Affinity snapping at Adobe's heels, I'd suggest that the situation is similar to the migration from QuarkXpress to InDesign too. Buggy/unreliable software, unresponsive support, yearly subscription fees - I'm starting to feel like an idiot for putting up with this.

77 Messages

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2.8K Points

Yes...we're seeing that now in spades. 

9 Messages

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324 Points

7 months ago

It's true. Pick any other program out there and learning of a new update is a delight. A new Photoshop update, however, always makes me anxious. My normal strategy has become to NEVER delete my older version because it is guaranteed that things will be broken in the update. What unnerves me the most is, how unnecessary some of these bugs are. They introduce ALT + Click on layer thumbnails and forget that ALT+ CTRL + Click already is a shortcut and totally mess it up. Then this stupid SHIFT + Click or not SHIFT + Click in transform tool mess (with all its inconsistency across different tools). So much waste of time and energy! And every time, EVERY TIME I install a new Photoshop version I have to manually hack a config file in order to make my Wacom work properly. Since the latest version, document windows don't resize when pressing ALT (they really struggle with that ALT-key!). The list goes on and on. It's just frustrating and annoying and I just want it to stop.  

42 Messages

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1.4K Points

Indeed. I only ever install the new version of Photoshop (and Illustrator and Bridge as well, because both of those programs are also in a cycle of constant deterioration as well) to see if this is the version where Adobe have listened and improved performance, but it's always somehow worse, with the kind of boneheaded decisions you mentioned such as the shift/no shift scaling madness. How that ever got into a final public version is totally beyond me.

I am extremely dissatisfied, p*ssed off and angry at Adobe. They pretty much created a monopoly in the graphics industry by killing QuarkXpress, dissolving Freehand and buying up Dreamweaver etc,  then just somehow made all of their programs suck including the once mighty Photoshop, then had the audacity to lock us into a yearly payment cycle whilst the quality of their software decreases. It's a scam and we're being treated like total idiots, and in the meantime we can't do our work properly because the damn tools that we're paying for are broken.

How does this end?

6 Messages

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152 Points

"Since the latest version, document windows don't resize when pressing ALT (they really struggle with that ALT-key!)"

Do they know what they do?!?
Same problem here!  Open a topic for this.

66 Messages

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1.2K Points

7 months ago

I absolutely agree with the author!
Do we pay to be testers of new functions and catch bugs? No, we pay to use professional software in our daily work.
I have been writing about a bug in the timeline for more than a year, every month - nobody cares.
Adobe, pay attention to your users, and not to managers who require you to introduce new, useless functions.

57 Messages

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1.2K Points

7 months ago

I've been using Photoshop since version 1.  Although 3 was where I started to use it fairly regularly, and 5 was where I thought it was software god.

today I have spent 2 hours trying to do something that until I updated to 21.1 has worked for over 10 years. In the process of trying to get it to work, I rolled back a version and adobe obliterated my existing prefs, despite telling me that it wouldn't. This means all the current versions of my actions, stuff that represents hundreds of hours of work has been destroyed by their negligence.  Class action? 

And it still doesn't work. 

now multiply this by all the other software in their suite. 

I am currently running data recovery software on my install drive in an attempt to recover my Actions Palette.psp file. This is a day in the life of an Adobe user. When I've finished (it will most likely fail), I will be back to where I was yesterday, minus a days work, and half a year of tweaks to all my presets, brushes, patterns, actions... All of which should be backed up to the cloud anyway. Shit, I've got android software that is more robust and better thought out than adobe's current offerings. 

Champion

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2.1K Messages

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36.3K Points

They should all still be on your system drive in the Photoshop 2020 folder. See this article to copy and merge them back to the previous version.

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/preset-migration.html

Here are the default folder locations:

    (Windows) C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop <version>\Presets\Actions
    (macOS) Applications/Adobe Photoshop <version>/Presets/Actions

Champion

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3K Messages

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55.5K Points

Actions aren’t stored in the Camera Raw Settings folder. The problem is that they are not stored in any folder unless the user saves them manually. If you don’t do that, then they are indeed only retrievable if you can find the old ActionsPalette.psp file. 
On the one hand you would think that somebody who has been using Photoshop since version 1 knows this by now. He must have encountered this problem multiple times. On the other hand this is indeed an annoying issue that should have been fixed by Adobe ages ago.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

Champion

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3K Messages

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55.5K Points

No, that is wrong. Actions aren’t presets, have nothing to do with Camera Raw, and so they aren’t stored in the Camera Raw Settings folder. The problem is that they are not stored in the Actions folder either, unless the user saves them there manually. If you don’t do that, then they are indeed only retrievable if you can find the old ActionsPalette.psp file.

On the one hand you would think that somebody who has been using Photoshop since version one knows this by now, and saves out his Action sets each time he changes them. He must know that this is the way to load custom actions into a new version of Photoshop and he must have done this many times already. On the other hand this is indeed an annoying issue that should have been fixed by Adobe ages ago.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

Champion

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2.1K Messages

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36.3K Points

Thanks Johan- My bad Copy & Paste. I've corrected the default folder location for Actions. Yes, and everything you say is true concerning saving actions.

Champion

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1.6K Messages

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27.9K Points

>and saves out his Action sets each time he changes them.

so sad to me that after all these decades, we still need to do this manually.
If only we had the technology to transparently and effortlessly back up our changed presets and settings automatically.

and yes, the last update to 21.1 erased all of my actions too, even though the updater was told not to.

66 Messages

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1.2K Points

7 months ago

We need even more topics like this one. Maybe when the whole forum will consist of such topics, they will start to do something?

42 Messages

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1.4K Points

7 months ago

The new version of Affinity Photo (1.8) supports the reading and editing of Photoshop smart objects. Just tried it on some of my own PSDs and it works perfectly, a LOT faster than editing in Photoshop as well.

57 Messages

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1.2K Points

does affinity have any sort of scripting or batching ability?

42 Messages

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1.4K Points

107 Messages

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2.7K Points

7 months ago

I add my disappointment that Adobe has lost their focus. I used to use Photoshop for every image editing task but Affinity Photo has become my first choice because Photoshop takes so long to load and now starts a handful of Cloud modules that it leaves running when Photoshop is closed. I am tired of killing off an army of processes that I never asked for and don't want. Photoshop is still better for some projects but Affinity is sure to improve and will win my full attention if Adobe doesn't give me the option to disable (and not launch) the cloud features.

66 Messages

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1.2K Points

7 months ago

Unfortunately Affinity Photo does not support animation, otherwise I would have switched to this application.
As a pixel-art artist and animator, I seriously look at Aseprite now.
Adobe, what are you doing? Previously, there was no better application for me than Photoshop, but now I’m thinking about stopping using it.  It’s very unpleasant to endure constant lags and freezes (on my powerful PC)

42 Messages

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1.4K Points

Might be of interest to you: https://cavalry.scenegroup.co/

So many viable alternatives to the Creative Suite are appearing. I've been browsing forums and comments all week, the dissatisfaction with Adobe's tools is getting louder and louder.  People are tired and frustrated of having their workflows and livelihoods disrupted by core tools being broken and unreliable. New generations of artists are learning on Affinity and Procreate and skipping Adobe completely.

I have had a week of hell in Photoshop and not a single request for support has been responded to by an Adobe rep. There is just no excuse for such low quality tech support for a premium professional application.

I've never had such a miserable time with software than the current state of Adobe's tools. Truly sad.




66 Messages

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1.2K Points

7 months ago

upd