5 Messages
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710 Points
Lightroom/Camera Raw: Ability to invert negative scans to positives (color and black-and-white)
I would dearly like to see the Lightroom 4 Beta team implement an additional feature in the final release. That feature would be the ability to take a camera+macro lens image of a B&W negative -- essentially a camera-based scan of a negative -- and invert the negative image to a positive image at the beginning of the development process in such a way that the resulting sliders in the LR4 Develop Module would not operate in reverse. As I understand it, this capability exists in Photoshop, but I don't own Photoshop. I do own Photoshop Elements 9, but that program only supports an 8-bit workflow, not 16-bits per channel, and round-tripping between LR & PSE9 requires the reimportation of a TIFF file that is more than twice the size of my NEF RAW files. Since this programming wizardry already exists in Photoshop, I would think that it would be a relatively simple matter to transfer and adapt that code for LR4 -- but then, I'm not a programmer, so what do I know...
I've been digitizing 40-year-old Kodachrome slides from my Peace Corps days in Africa, using a 55mm Micro-Nikkor (macro) lens, coupled to a Nikon ES-1 Slide Copy Attachment, and even on a D300s body, I can get truly excellent results. I can't wait to continue that work using the pending 36 megapixel Nikon D800 body with an upgraded f/2.8 macro lens (mine is the old 55mm f/3.5 design). I really, REALLY want to be able to camera-scan my many B&W negatives without having to generate huge intermediate TIFF files.
You can respond to this request by emailing me, Jeff Kennedy Thanks, in advance, for taking the time to review and consider my request. I LOVE Lightroom 3, and from what I've seen, I'm going to love LR4 even more. I REALLY appreciate the effort that Adobe takes to solicit input from the photographic user community.
BTW, if the feature I request *can't* be implemented right away, could the LR support team provide detailed, interim instructions as to how to use the "backwards" sliders, and in what sequence? That would be very much appreciated. I'm sure many older LR users have considerable analog image collections that they would like to digitize, and doing so in-camera is both 1) of surprisingly high quality, 2) MUCH faster than using flatbed scanners and 3) of much higher quality and resolution than flatbed scan and MUCH cheaper than professional drum scans.
I've been digitizing 40-year-old Kodachrome slides from my Peace Corps days in Africa, using a 55mm Micro-Nikkor (macro) lens, coupled to a Nikon ES-1 Slide Copy Attachment, and even on a D300s body, I can get truly excellent results. I can't wait to continue that work using the pending 36 megapixel Nikon D800 body with an upgraded f/2.8 macro lens (mine is the old 55mm f/3.5 design). I really, REALLY want to be able to camera-scan my many B&W negatives without having to generate huge intermediate TIFF files.
You can respond to this request by emailing me, Jeff Kennedy Thanks, in advance, for taking the time to review and consider my request. I LOVE Lightroom 3, and from what I've seen, I'm going to love LR4 even more. I REALLY appreciate the effort that Adobe takes to solicit input from the photographic user community.
BTW, if the feature I request *can't* be implemented right away, could the LR support team provide detailed, interim instructions as to how to use the "backwards" sliders, and in what sequence? That would be very much appreciated. I'm sure many older LR users have considerable analog image collections that they would like to digitize, and doing so in-camera is both 1) of surprisingly high quality, 2) MUCH faster than using flatbed scanners and 3) of much higher quality and resolution than flatbed scan and MUCH cheaper than professional drum scans.
Responses
jeff_kennedy_3542707
5 Messages
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710 Points
5 years ago
I don't own Photoshop, only Lightroom 4. I want to digitize hundreds of 40-year-old legacy B&W negatives, using a Nikon D4 or D800E, a macro lens and a Nikon ES-1 slide copy attachment. I want to maintain a 16-bit B&W RAW (NEF) workflow. No roundtripping a super-large TIFF file LR4 > PS > LR4. I want the equivalent of a Photoshop Filters > Adjustments > Invert option at the **beginning** of my RAW workflow, so that I can process a positive image, rather than a negative image, ideally with all the sliders working as if the starting image was a B&W positive image to begin with. Ideally, this could be implemented as a RAW image import preset. Let me know if this functionality can be added: Jeff Kennedy Thanks!
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0
thomas_geist
34 Messages
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948 Points
5 years ago
The requests for more precise point curves, possibly with a larger display as well as levels in other threads are is not so far fetched. I want to add another little function to it, that would prpbably be super easy to include (even in its late state as a public Beta): invert.
Why all this? Take a look here: http://theagnosticprint.org/future-of...
Considering all the tools and functions LR already has, it's just a small step short of being the #1 software for dealing with negatives. "Not much film shot these days" you say? True, but there are vast amounts of negatives out there waiting to be digitized. Read this article and you will understand. The scanning days (especially in the higher end segment) are cming to an end since the hardware starts dying down and replacement and sewrvice is not much lnger availavble.
Still there is a huge legacy of negatives out there, some of it of incredible importance. Digitizing via DSLRs / MF camera backs seems to be the way to go. Ans LR has almost everything needed to be the tool for it. again - the article makes my point clear.
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0
gunter_sommerfeld
3 Messages
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90 Points
5 years ago
Lightroom is useless because it doesn't handle B&W negatives of which I have over 5000. (it lacks the inversion facility to get a positive image)
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0
thomas_geist
34 Messages
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948 Points
5 years ago
0
0
John_R_Ellis
Champion
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5.5K Messages
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97.3K Points
5 years ago
There are two serious issues with this:
1. After inverting the tone curve, the other sliders work backwards, which is confusing if you also work with positives.
2. Due to the non-linear nature of the Develop module's image-adaptive controls, inverting the tone curve gives much different results than doing the inversion in Photoshop. See this thread for more details: https://forums.adobe.com/message/8067...
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0
mike_fraser
4 Messages
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110 Points
5 years ago
Two simple requests for Lightroom:
1. An 'Invert' command. Many of us use Lightroom to manage our film scans, and currently have to go through Photoshop to invert (CMD-I) to process our negatives. Staying within LR for this would be hugely helpful (reversing the RGB curves works, but results in all of the sliders working backward).
2. A per-channel 'Auto' button for RGB curves. One of the key parts of converting colour negative film scans to positive is to correct for the orange film mask, and this involves maximizing per-channel contrast (and snapping the neutral mid tones). This currently requires a roundtrip into Photoshop.
Adding these two features would make Lightroom THE preeminent tool for processing film scans (other RAW processors do offer per channel contrast maximization, but not invert). Photoshop would still be used for other important tasks, but the primary workflow could be entirely within Lightroom.
0
0
jim_van_kennen
2 Messages
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70 Points
5 years ago
0
0
maxpierson_2306459
4 Messages
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110 Points
4 years ago
0
0
mark_mcgillivray
2 Messages
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92 Points
4 years ago
Can you please add a simple "Invert Colours" function to the develop module? I take a lot of Solargraph images which I then scan as a paper negative and its frustrating to load them into Photoshop only to invert colours - since LR develop module has much more intuitive funcionality for the remainder of my processing
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henrik_olsen_7p7iarire9qwe
23 Messages
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426 Points
4 years ago
The solution to export and reimport tiffs with an invert curve preset is noted though as a workaround. But I like to have only my raw files if possible, nothing else - hence the wish for an invert switch in the develop module. Thanks.
If anyone else could use this feature, remember to vote at the top of this page.
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kevin_barre
13 Messages
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238 Points
3 years ago
The only current solution for editing negatives is to invert the curves, export the images, and then re-import into Lightroom. But this isn't possible with RAW files. It would be awesome to be able to select an "Invert" button, and then have all other functions of Lightroom work exactly the same, so that high quality capture of negatives using a macro lens would be possible.
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0
roy_burroughs
3 Messages
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114 Points
3 years ago
I'm looking at digitizing thousands of color negatives to digital files via a high-rez camera. I would love to have an invert color option within Camera RAW. What better way to preserve old film that with a RAW digital file! Even better with a feature to eliminate the color cast of the film. I think many PS users would embrace it. I could see this being a huge draw for entry level users as well, as many are trying to figure out what to do with old negatives that are deteriorating.
6
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todd_shaner_6660895
Champion
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2.3K Messages
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38K Points
3 years ago
BTW- A similar post was merged here that no longer pulls up doing a search. It might be of interest:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/color-invert-for-negative-film-in-camera-raw
2
jackklaber
202 Messages
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3.1K Points
3 years ago
Be advised that up to 4x5 a 4x6k scan is sufficient to capture the effective information in the sheet film. Technical camera's use a bigger diffusion circle (airy disc) and thus, the spatial resolution of sheet film is lower than 135 and 120 film.
8x10 sheets I would preferably scan with a transparency scanner such as f.i. the Epson V850 Pro Scanner. Although it is much more time consuming, I don't believe you have thousands of 8x10 sheets waiting to be digitized. Setting up a professional light table to photograph 8x10's is no sinecure.....
1
0
olivier_van_bellinghen
7 Messages
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170 Points
3 years ago
2