Lightroom: Still inconsistent capture date/time for photos and videos

Note that LR 7 fixes problems with newly imported photos.  Photos imported prior to LR 7 still need to be adjusted using the workaround described above:  Select the affected photos, do Metadata > Edit Capture Time, and do Change All.

Good, thanks.

Please see Lightroom Classic 7.1. This issue is fixed.

Thanks,
Sunil

The issue is not fixed in 7.1 - or at least if it was  it is back in 7.3....

Maybe it is obvious that this will not work, but could you restore a previous version of the catalog? Before you made the edits? 

Im horrified by the thought of your situation. Hope you encounter a fix!

I could, but that would not solve the problem because LR wrote the metadata to the original files.

Not the same issue as the topic in which you posted.

Please reference the new conversation here: Lightroom: Recovering file last-modified date/time?

Fortune favours the lucky then...

 Lets conduct a little thought experiment. Conjecture:

• There is a field captureTime in the Database table, but not all of the code uses this (maybe its seen as slow to access, who knows)
  
• There are two fields in the XMP, exif:DateTimeOriginal and photoshop:DateCreated,  (in reality there are more but twos enough for this example) and these are used frequently in the code but not consistently, which is the symptom we see

 We know that ‘Copy/Paste’ metadata and ‘Edit Capture Time’ don’t update consistently, so

• Lets say ‘Edit’ updates all three
• Lets say ‘Copy’ only updates photoshop:DateCreated and (maybe) captureTime but not exif:DateTimeOriginal
• So, we have some images for which these two xmp values may differ 

Now, there are lots of places that capture date is used.

• Several points in the library display (i.e. the inconsistencies in the title of this thread)
• Sort by
• The API
• The edit and copy functions themselves need to display something as a starting point
• And so on

There is no guarantee that all of these use captureTime, or exif:DateTimeOriginal. From you example they can't, otherwise we would not see variability. In V6 for example some of the fields had quite complex conditional statements trying to find a date that could be displayed.

Lets have Adobe ‘fix’ the immediate problem and have the ‘Copy’ write exif:DateTimeOriginal as well (and captureTime if it doesn't). Further, it doesn't standardise the code to use the value in the database rather than the XMP and doesn’t provide any utility function to align these values for each image. 

Were this the case, then

• At any point in the future, any of its developers may decide that for the little fragment of code they are changing, it would be better to use the ‘other’ field.
• Then for some data stored prior to the ‘fix’, we are back to the inconsistency and start all over again. This is why it should repair the database as well as fixing the code.

 There is a reason that camera supports have three legs and not four – stability.

 For the same reason its poor practice to have the same data value in more than one place.

I agree that the current architecture is very fragile.   Some background: I believe that it was originally motivated by a desire to have the database metadata tables reflect the contents of the corresponding date/time metadata fields. (There are four different photo metadata standards with at least 12 different date/time fields.)  Several years after LR was released, the Metadata Working Group came out with its revised standard, which LR adopted.  That standard introduced some significant changes in the way that the multiple date/time metadata fields should be handled.   

It would be straightforward for LR to have its cake and eat it too, maintaining the original metadata fields in the database but have a single unified method for accessing "capture time" (whether via a function or a database field).  But somewhere along the way the engineering lost its way on this.

Yep, its often referred to as data abstraction, dates back to before 1980 as a concept.

Sadly, though, I think swathes of the code don’t use ‘the database’ per se, rather they parse the xmp string. This is always stored as a composite string in one of the columns. For example, if my analysis below is correct, then

• ‘Edit Capture Time’ doesn’t take the ‘true’ database field as the source
• Reminder, Paste didn’t set this field, therefore if ‘Edit’ used this as the source then it would revert the date back to the value before the paste, rather than ‘correcting’ the issue
• Conclusion, ‘Edit’ must be taking photoshop:DateCreated as its source
• This is only in the xmp

 Another rather old concept is refactoring, Wiki suggests first known use of the term is 1990.

 In this context, you might refactor the code and make all the ‘read’ occurrences of capture date use the 'true' database field and apply data abstraction to the write occurrences.            Removes some inconsistency but highlights another problem, the 'true' database field can be incorrect.

This is what I think is happening

On a test catalog  I took three images created in 2010, 2014, 2017 from a supported camera

 ·      2010 image, I left unchanged

·      2014 image, I pasted the date from the 2010 image

·      2017 image, I used Metadata -> Edit Capture time; set to random value

First difference:

Paste metadata doesn’t write to the field captureTime in Table Adobe_Images

Action, Copy/Paste from 2010 image to the 2014 image

• Before "2014-04-25T14:09:38.24", After "2014-04-25T14:09:38.24"

Whereas Metadata -> Edit Capture time does, on the 2017 Image

• Before, "2017-03-28T11:53:38.41, After "1995-01-01T00:00:01"

Second difference:

Only image related xmp date field that I could see copy/paste changing is photoshop:DateCreated

These are selected changes on the Copy/Paste xmp, three of the values are unchanged from their original 2014 values (created in import)

• exif:DateTimeOriginal="2014-04-25T14:09:38.24"
• xmp:ModifyDate="2014-04-25T14:09:38.24"
• xmp:CreateDate="2014-04-25T14:09:38.24"
• photoshop:DateCreated="2010-01-01T12:22:19.73

Whereas the Edit Capture Time changes an additional field, exif:DateTimeOriginal

• exif:DateTimeOriginal="1995-01-01T00:00:01"
• xmp:ModifyDate="2017-03-28T11:53:38.41"
• xmp:CreateDate="2017-03-28T11:53:38.41"
• photoshop:DateCreated="1995-01-01T00:00:01" 

Note, neither action changes the xmp:CreateDate, or xmp:ModifyDate both are the time that I shot the relevant image.

[Edit] Forgot to say there are other date fields in the tables that I didn't look at, such as harvested date which may or may not have been updated.

I was hopeful that Lightroom Classic CC 7.1 would fix this issue, but it didn't.  I have updated to 7.2 and still have the same problem, but only with iphone 6s plus videos (.MOV).  

When I import videos and images I like to rename all my files to include the capture date and time (YYY-MM-DD Hour.Minute.Second).  My 5d Mark iv images and videos (.MOV) import and rename based on time perfectly and it matches all the metadata times.  Same with iphone images.  However, the time in the iphone video filenames are ALWAYS wrong, and I can't for the life of me figure out where the hour even comes from.  It's always 5 or 6 hours off, which I suspect changes based on whether it's daylight savings or not.  As a result of the incorrect time, any videos taken after 6 or 7 pm, also have an incorrect date.

To be clear, I am expecting a filename based on the time CREATED, just like images and other videos I import.  

Example 1-iphone 6s plus:
Filename time: 14.22.28 (=2:22:28 pm; 6 hours off when daylight savings ends)
Date Time Digitized: 8:22:28 AM (correct time of capture)
Date Time: 10:37:17 PM (correct time of import)

Example 2-iphone 6s plus:
Filename time: 23.43.57 (=11:43:57 pm; 5 hours off during daylight savings)
Date Time Digitized: 6:43:57 PM (correct time of capture)
Date Time: 9:48:41 PM (correct time of import)

At first glance I might have said it was a time zone error, except the metadata is correct in the videos and all other images and my professional camera videos renamed with the same filename structure are always correct upon import, with the filename date/time matching all metadata.  

Observations:
*Images have 3 date/time areas; all seem to match; all are the exact date/time created:
1) Date Time Original     =date/time created
2) Date Time Digitized    =date/time created
3) Date Time                      =date/time created

*However, Videos only have 2 & 3 of the above time areas where:
2) Date Time Digitized   =date/time created
3) Date Time                     = date/time IMPORTED (WHY anyone needs this is beyond me, but whatever, even this doesn't match the random time in my iphone video filenames)

*Sorting images/videos by date created works correctly-even when the filename shows an incorrect time.  I presume this is because the metadata is correct, regardless of the filename.

*Auto importing the exact same iphone videos as above  from a watched folder and using the exact same naming structure (date hour.minute.second) works correctly.  I've been using this workaround for years.  But it is full of flaws: Lightroom will re-import the same files-with the exact same metadata- if air dropped to the watched folder by accident. And it is a pain to figure out what has and hasn't been airdropped if done out of order, so my catalog becomes full of duplicate images and videos that have a -2 at the end of the filename).  

This is a HUGE problem.  My workaround is flawed and it causes me to not back up my iphone images as often as I should.  Even when I don't import using the hour.minute.second filename structure, the date is off for all iphone videos taken after 6pm or before 6am, which is UNACCEPTABLE for organizational purposes.  Ultimately, I can't believe this has been going on for years and people just accept it.  I pay every month and I haven't been able to import videos with the correct time.  That's basic.  FIX IT.   

Note:  I have also tried renaming on import with only the date and without the time, but this still results in incorrect dates for all videos taken after 6 or 7 pm.  Not renaming with dates is not an option.

Hi Laura. I understand your frustration, but if you are looking for a work-around while you are waiting for a fix, i suggest you look at A Better Finder Rename. You can create droplets that use metadata to rename files, which you would apply before importing the video into Lightroom. (If you are on Windows, I suspect that there are umpteen utilities that offer the same options.) I use A Better Finder Rename all the time.

Thanks, Alan!

Actually, I received a helpful reply on another forum last night which had an easier (IMO) and effective workaround: 

Workaround:
1) Import iphone .MOV videos as you normally would.  (I use "YYYY-MM-DD Hour.Minute.Second_iphone" and use it to check against the metadata). 

2)  Select all previously imported files and, under the metadata tab, Click "Edit Capture Time".  Select Type of Adjustment: Adjust to a specified date and time.  Don't change anything.  It will appear nothing needs changing as the original time already matches the corrected time.  Select Change All.  You'll notice there is now a 3rd metadata date/time entry: Date Time Original.  This matches the metadata list of .CR2 and .jpg file and is CRITICAL in order for ALL .MOV files to be renamed correctly*.   

4) NOW select all files and rename your using a date/time preset.  I used the same one that I use upon import and it works.  The filename matches the date and time the video was TAKEN/Created (not imported).  This works for a single file or multiple files.

**Note: I tried skipping step 3 to see if it was necessary, and it IS.  Without editing the capture time the files were renamed using the IMPORTED date/time. In fact, when I tried renaming an .MOV file from my 5d Mark iv, which had the correct date/time in the filename upon import, it was renamed using the IMPORTED date/time also.  This must be ANOTHER BUG on top of the bug that randomly adds 5-6 hours (for CST) to the Date Time Digitized.  The renaming feature must use the "Date Time" metadata (which is the IMPORTED date/time) if there is no "Date Time Original" metadata entry.  So stupid.  Therefore, step 3 is necessary in order to create the "Date Time Original" metadata entry, which eliminates the mis-naming in all video files.  

Hope that helps!  But also hope it gets fixed!!

The original merged topic contains details about Steven's symptoms (thanks!).  See the next post in this topic for a diagnosis.

Steven, you can delete the Dropbox folder -- the recipe in the next post quickly reproduces the symptoms you observed.

Steven,

I was able to reproduce your issue. We are looking into this.

Thanks,
Smit Keniya
Lightroom Classic CC Team

Hi John,

When I downloaded the zip and checked the filemodifydate for before and after.jpg, I am getting the following 
before.jpg - 2018:05:17 22:15:08+05:30
after.jpg - 2018:05:17 22:15:08+05:30

Also for the test.jpg file is as follows:
2018:05:17 22:15:08+05:30
and I have value for DateTimeOriginal as follows
2001:05:01 15:02:00

DateTimeOriginal value is only present in test.jpg

Here is the screenshot from the Lightroom Classic:


PS - I was testing on Win10

Thanks,
Smit

To observe the bug, you need to run the ExifTool commands in step 3 before importing the files.

Also, if you are located in a time zone whose offset is not a whole number of hours, it might be easiest to temporarily change your computer’s time zone to, say, UTC - 7:00.

My Apologies. I misread your step.

Based on your suggestion, when I changed the TimeZone to UTC -7, I was able to reproduce the issue. I will update this to our bug.

Also, if I just use the date-time values you have shared, I am still able to reproduce this when reset my Laptop to IST - UTC +5:30

Thanks again for following up on this for such a long time!

Thanks,
Smit
Lightroom Classic CC Team

Are you importing using a USB cable or by using a card reader?

I use a card reader to import my files.

OK, there's a separate bug with putting photos into the wrong folder that's triggered by importing with a cable.