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Adobe Photoshop Family

Champion

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5.2K Messages

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93.4K Points

Sat, Apr 2, 2011 1:47 AM

52

Lightroom: Stacking in folders and collections should be global

Stacks should be handled uniformly, regardless of the source selected. As it stands, stacks are second-class citizens in Lightroom.

* Currently, photos in different folders can’t be stacked. This restriction forces users to be aware of which folder a photo resides in, which goes against the mainstream digital-asset-management philosophy of hiding folder locations. I don’t know of any use-case justifying this restriction.

* Stacking isn’t displayed when viewing collections and smart collections. This is especially annoying when viewing smart collections, since smart collections are the only way to do advanced searching. It would be better if stacks were viewable within collections just as they are within folders and with filtering – when more than one photo in a stack is part of a collection, then the stack could be collapsed or expanded, but only the photos in the collection will be shown. This is the way stacks work now with filtering, so extending this to collections would be consistent. Users who don’t want to see stacking in collections could simply invoke Expand All Stacks.

* And of course, you should be able to stack and unstack photos when viewing a collection.

Responses

513 Messages

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11.1K Points

10 years ago

What is really bad is that images in stacks are not found through a search. Unless you already know that you have a particular image, you'll never be able to find it again unless you expand all stacks first.

That greatly diminishes the value of stacks to me.

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

10 years ago

Good idea John. I have nothing to add over what you and TK already have said...

Champion

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5.8K Messages

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102.6K Points

9 years ago

Stacking is now available in Collections in the Lightroom 4 beta. You can read more about it here: http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjourn...

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

Thank God! er, I mean Adobe...

1 Message

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62 Points

But not in Smart collections.

11 Messages

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302 Points

Just discovered this (no stacking in smart collections) :(. Seriously? There doesn't seem to any good reason for this (?)...

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

Smart Collections are created on the fly using criteria so images can be added and removed at any moment by something changing about the image. I guess it is hard to stack within such a fluid collection.

11 Messages

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302 Points

I see no reason why the "stacking attributes" cannot be observable from a smart collection. Other attributes (picks, ratings, keywords, etc.) are available and the logic needed to correlate the stacked elements as a secondary heuristic once the smart collection rules are satisfied seems straightforward to me. I think that this cataloging/metadata feature needs to be avaialble from within smart collections.

474 Messages

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12.2K Points

Unless they've changed something recently stacking only works for images in the same physical folder. I'd be happy if I could create a stack containing images from different folders, let alone a collection, smart or otherwise.

Of course you have to go back to the concept of stacking. It was designed to mimic the standard film process of a light table with slides where you "stacked" the slides that were essentially the same image, like several shots from a burst. In those cases you pretty much were only dealing with images from the same role as in the time it took to change rolls the model moved but I suppose one could extend the concept to several rolls exposed one after the other in a tight time frame. Anyway, this is what LR stacking was meant to simulate.

So, within that context, stacking images from multiple folders or collections (which usually implies images that are not essentially the same) doesn't fit the model for which stacking was created.

Now, that isn't to say that extending the concept to multiple folders or collections might not bring added value but it's not what it was intended for and the technology would be complex. For example, Metadata is at the image (or VC) level. So if one image was in several collections with different stack positions in each one the stack position would need to be stored at the intersection of the image metadata and the collection data (a many to many relationship). Not impossible but not likely to get traction with Adobe..

11 Messages

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302 Points

The issue of stacking across folders and (non-smart) collections is indeed a separate concern. Stacking is obviously supported for images like those you indicate above - e.g., from a burst, which are likely necessarily in the same folder - personally I do a lot of stacking related to panoramas, which are also, in my case, always in the same folder.

I just tried stacking in a standard (non-smart) collection and this does indeed work (LR CC), including for elements of the stack that are in different folders. A series of images that pre-exist as a stack in a folder do not remain in the stack when they're added to a collection, but at least one can "re-create" the stack from within the collection. So standard collections seem to be fine.

My request here (and the reason I stumbled onto this 4+yr old request...) is related to smart collections; I would just like to see the same support for stacking in smart collections as in standard collections.

Champion

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5.2K Messages

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93.4K Points

"So standard collections seem to be fine."

Note that stacks created in a collection are specific to that collection -- the stacking isn't visible in other collections or in folders. And stacking created in a folder isn't visible when viewing collections. In four years, I haven't heard anyone justify this design.

11 Messages

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302 Points

Yes, correct, and this is another annoyance (i.e., folder stacking attributes being visible/available in collections generally). This is really orthogonal (although may have implementation coupling) to the request for (independent) stacking in smart collections.

230 Messages

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4K Points

9 years ago

But AFAIK, stacks don't carry over from folders to collections and vice versa, do they?

Beat

Champion

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5.8K Messages

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102.6K Points

No, true. Do we want this reopened?

230 Messages

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4K Points

I think we would ;-)

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

The big print giveth, but the small print taketh away...

Champion

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5.2K Messages

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93.4K Points

9 years ago

[I'm away from a fast connection for many days so can't download the beta.]

I'm confused by Beat's comment. In LR 4 beta, suppose I stack two photos in collection A. Will those photos appear stacked when I select the following sources?

- All Photographs
- the containing folders
- collection B (which also contains the two photos)
- a Smart Collection matching the two photos

230 Messages

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4K Points

9 years ago

1) No
2) No
3) No
4) No

Also, to answer your next question :-)
If I stack two photos in All Phtotgraphs, the stack only shows up in the containing folder (not in any collections nor smart collections).

Beat

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

9 years ago

Put another way, stacking is entirely context-sensitive (it is tied to the source), like how pick flags *used* to be.

230 Messages

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4K Points

Almost ....

Flags would at least show up in a smart collection if applied in folder/All Photographs, stacks don't.

Beat

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

Gold star comment.

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

Flags are global, stacks are local

230 Messages

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4K Points

... but not as local as flags used to be ;-)

Beat

12 Messages

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260 Points

I liked it better when flags were local.

Champion

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5.2K Messages

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93.4K Points

9 years ago

Does anyone know example workflows (use cases) this stacking design is intended to address? With collection-specific flags, I understood the motivating examples, even though they didn't apply to my workflows. Absent motivating examples, I can't figure out why this stacking design might be useful to a "typical" user.

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

I can't imagine either...

3 Messages

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102 Points

The simplest example.
Being in "All photographs" you can't stack two photos from different folders which is a big pain.
With stacking possible in collection I suppose (I'm not sure) you could stack photos virtually from anywhere - it would be great!

Champion

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5.2K Messages

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93.4K Points

That's what we thought was the intended design. But according to Beat, if you stack two photos in a collection (regardless of whether they are in the same folder or not), they won't appear stacked when you select All Photographs.

62 Messages

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1K Points

Can you create a collection that contain All Photographs? Would the stack transfer from one collection to another?

1 Message

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62 Points

Surely, this isn't the way you would expect stacks to work? In Elements stacks seem to work the way I would expect - so if you stack images together they are effectively treated as a single photo where ever you view them from! I can see some possibilities of context specific stacking - but in general I would have thought that this is not what is required. I would completely agree with John's original proposal about how stacking should work and if do a search or use a Smart Collection you should be presented with the pre-stacked photos and have the option to expand them if required. It would be a real shame for LR4 to do some work in this area - but still not deliver functionality which is already working in other members of the Photoshop family!!

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

8 years ago

You can have stacks in collections be same as in folders using Stacker:

http://www.robcole.com/Rob/ProductsAn...

62 Messages

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1.8K Points

8 years ago

Yes, the stacking feature of LR is, at the same time, a potentially very powerful feature, and not quite living up to its promise.

I would also like to see a way to expand a stack and have all the images become "selected" as part of the expansion (rather than just the top image). As a suggestion, perhaps if you hold when you click the "1 of x" symbol the stack is expanded with all images selected.

I'd also like to see a way to have meta data changes applied to the entire stack when you change it on the top image on a collapsed stack. Perhaps a preference setting. For example, if I add or remove a Keyword to the top image of a collapsed stack I'd like to be able to have that change replicate to all images in the stack rather than just the first one.

2 Messages

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82 Points

8 years ago

I keep the RAW versions of images on an external drive since they're large, and keep the finished .jpg versions in a folder on my MacBook Pro. In my Photoshop Elements catalog I stack the photos to keep them together and reduce clutter. But when I tried to stack photos in this manner in LR I got an error message saying it is not possible to stack photos from separate folders.

Adobe, please make it possible in the Lightroom catalog to stack photos that exist in differing folders and/or drives.

12 Messages

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260 Points

5 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom 4: Moving Stacked images into a collection (and keep their stacked conf....

LR4: Is there a way to move stacks of images into a collection and have those stacks retain their original stacking "formation"/order?

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

5 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Option for stacks in collections to be same as stacks in folders..

I want my stackage in collections the same as my stackage in folders.

I'd be perfectly happy to handle this via plugin, if the requisite functions were added to SDK, although I imagine some people would prefer this option in Lightroom, natively.

Bonus points to anybody who can come up with the SQL required to accomplish this, then I could just add it to SQLiteroom, as a work-around solution.

6 Messages

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122 Points

5 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom Request: Stacks should be global, not collection-specific.

I'm an Aperture user gradually switching over to Lightroom. One of the biggest pains I've found in Lightroom is that stacks are collection-specific. I'd really love it if when I stacked two images, they were stacked globally (and the images in each stack added to other collections as needed). Here's a sample of my workflow:

- I have a collection set for each project/shoot.
- I create collections for each card in a shoot, grouped within the collection set, and I go through each collection and rate my images plus possibly edit them in an external editor (Nik suite, Photoshop, etc.).
- I might have 300 5-star images after a two week shoot (think a photo trip), and of those, I'll make a new collection that I'll show people/upload to my website that has 100 of my favorite 5-star images in it. I don't use a "show" keyword + smart collection because I don't want that showing up when I export my images to my agent. Similarly, I don't use flags + a smart collection because I use flags for short-term purposes, such as when I'm picking which images to print for a show.

Given both the original image + the edited ones have a 5-star rating, it's frustrating seeing duplicates when I filter the collection set for 5-star images. They're stacked: just show me the top of the stack. Next, it's annoying when I drag my favorites into a "Show" collection to have to figure out if I'm looking at the edited image or the original RAW. Last, it's really painful if I decide to tweak an image in the Show collection in Photoshop to have to then go copy the image to the original collection and re-stack it there.

Aperture handled this well. When an image is stacked, it's stacked. If I drag an image that's stacked, the stack moves with it. If I filter, there are options to look at top of stack only or the whole stack. It's very simple and elegant, and it makes it easy to keep the original RAW, edited TIFF(s), and any virtual copies together seamlessly.

Champion

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5.2K Messages

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93.4K Points

5 years ago

"I don't use a "show" keyword + smart collection because I don't want that showing up when I export my images to my agent."

Given LR's wierdness with stacks and collections, you might reconsider using keywords rather than collections to manage your workflow. This would allow you to use stacks the way you (and most others) expect.

You can easily stop a keyword from getting exported -- in the Keyword List pane in Library, double-click the keyword and uncheck the option Include On Export.