Lightroom: Relative Develop Presets would save the day!

Want want want! Why is this still 'Under consideration' when it was suggested 4 years ago? From doing quick web searches it seems this something many people would love. I understand that a lot of requests are not considered as the feature is something that is more suited to Photoshop - but not in this case. Surely this is perfect for lightroom.

How would I use it? - I often create colour and black & white versions of a collection of photos. I process in colour first and then make black and white virtual copies. To make these b&w copies I have to do all my adjustments individually in Library, and they are nearly the same every time (2/3 exp, + contrast, +shadows, -blacks etc etc)

Pleeeease add this to the next release!!!!

The problem with using plugins for relative presets is that Lightroom's sliders only go so far, which means that if you correct your image first then apply a relative preset you sometimes max out on one or more sliders, which leads to unpredictable & inconsistent results - this particularly happens with exposure and colour balance.

What's needed is for Lightroom to provide a way to normalise the manually applied settings to reset the sliders back to default while baking in the applied effects, so that relative presets can then be applied consistently and can using the full range of all the sliders.

Alternatively, Lightroom could support sliders going beyond their current min & max values.

Either way, Lightroom itself needs to change.

So no feature for relative adjustments of develop module parameters in LR6 - have to say I'm extremely disappointed by this

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Relative Presets - We Still Want Them.

I just finished a webinar with Lightroom users from across the globe and it was unanimous, everyone still wants "relative presets". Who's in favor of relative presets that would allow you to increase or decrease any give slides by x value, rather than just moving them to a given position on the slider. Imagine being able to increase contrast, clarity, noise reduction and sharpening all by a certain amount with the touch of one button. You could then truly have a preset you could use as a universal sharpening preset. Or any such combination of adjustments... who's with me on this?

The alternative that occurred to me recently is some sort of "Normalize" button which bakes the current global settings into the image while resetting all the slider positions back to zero, thereby letting you use any preset in a relative way.

However, this idea doesn't work cleanly for all settings (e.g. toggles) so may be impractical to implement unless the rule is that only sliders are baked in / normalized.

I wouldn't suggest that as an idea, since it would A) require extra steps and B) would negate the RAW advantage. Never bake anything in if you can avoid it. That's the policy.

Relative Presets remain of great interest to me, and have been so since LR2. Please to see the Under Consideration tag.

John Caldwell
Pittsburgh, PA

Yes please. Still waiting!

Marcus your use of the term Normalize was easy to understand, and I doubt it was taken to represent the idea of baking anything into a RAW file. Another respondent did feel a Relative Preset would negate the advantages of RAW file use, and appeared to take a Relative Adjustment as making a pixel edit of a file and saving the edited file.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled LIGHTROOM - Mark current settings as base.

I'd love to be able to do my adjustments, then mark that as a base so any presets applied to a number of photos will all end the same.

An example, I want to use a preset that includes black level adjustment of -10.
I have two photos from different places (ie not bracketed etc).
One of those is under, one is over but I know I want the same look for both.
I adjust blacks, whites, shadows, highlights so the exposures are correct.
I set this as the new "base", as though they were both the perfect exposure
I apply the preset, knowing that the black levels will be adjusted -10 relative to the base, not to the original exposure value, so they'll look the same.

I know there's other ways around this, but one click to set as base would be so easy.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled "Tweak-Sync" option request : Allow to sync "relative tweak-amount" instead ....

 "Tweak-Sync", additional option request : 
Allow to  sync  "relative tweak-amount" also, not only sync and auto-sync "absolute values".

(John Spacey's post had the same wish :  "Lightroom: Auto Sync: Relative value adjustments"
but I go ahead with my own heading of the post even if the wish is redundant.)

I think such a function would be useful, specifically justifiable to create versions of series (of already seriously, individually edited photos) for say the web, projector, another differently rendering monitor -  sync something that indeed is more something of a final added adaptation, tweaking intervention to a series of copies,  rather than part of serious editing.
(For instance : Add some warmth or contrast or highlights or less red, etc..)

I understand that this could be a voluntarily omitted function because it can (should) admittedly  be qualified as defeating the seriousness LR tools allow.. As a "not a very "serious" approach - and not even possible in many circumstances !
(Then, shall an image -that for instance is already at a maximum setting- be highlighted or ignored ?)

Another problem could be that interventions by 'x' digits might perhaps not translate into linearly perceived repercussion, depending on where on scales they kick-in (and if so, added auto-compensation would definitely conflict Lightroom's integrity).

Still, I think something could be offered along this line, for "conscious" users, it could often be a plus and a time-saver, for when highest quality and puritanism is counterproductive.. ;-)  ).

(btw; auto-sync could also be considered kind of "dangerous)

Relative presets and relative sync is something I have been asking for since LR2.  Would be a game changer.  People have been wishing for this for many many many many years.  I add my strong vote!

I would think, Adobe could add a vissual icon on any relative preset and when you add a preset, you simply toggle a checkbox that says "relative" and then you make your preset, but instead of recording the absolute values of the sliders, it looks at the relative change and records that (example: +5 on black) so then when you apply it to an image that has 10 on black slider, it just increases the Black +5 from there.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Apply presets on top of adjustments.

I've seen similar ideas pop up every now and then... However, Adobe haven't implemented anything like that yet. My workflow - and that of other photographers I know - starts off with correcting images. For instance, add some exposure to underexposed images, set the white balance for those where it is not accurate, maybe add local adjustments or vignetting effects to those images where I believe it is necessary, reduce noise or sharpen images etc. Now, depending on the presets, (some of) these settings may be gone when applying a preset.

As a workaround, I export the corrected images as 16bit TIFF and reimport them into Lightroom and then apply the appropriate filters. However, this steps requires huge amounts of disk space, time and CPU load.

Thus, I suggest to implement some kind of image "lock" so that presets applied to locked images will be applied on top of existing adjustments. Any other way to add presets relatively instead of absolutely is welcome too.

A possible problem I see with applying a preset on top of (in addition to) already set Basic Panel settings is that it could easily max out some settings, which could look horrible.  Maybe a way to implement it would be to have a "stack preset" option (stack is probably a bad term to use since it has another meaning in Lr) that, if it's checked, would apply it over existing settings, then have a slider that would allow you to back off on the intensity of the preset as a whole.

I'd Love to see this!  I usually start my workflow making necessary adjustments to get a consistent, uniform "base" between the images I'm working on.  Essentially each "base" has a perfect exposure and white balance and together they have a consistent tone.  Once they all look consistent, I want to make creative edits, but presets in LR don't work easily between images because presets don't take into account the different settings needed to achieve my "base" look.  I usually choose to make my creative edits in photoshop so I can work with a blank slate and keep a consistent look through actions, saved levels and curves.  But I'd love to stay in Lightroom!  I just don't think presets have to be so hard!!  

Seeing this post got my mind going and I came up with a LR world where we can use "Base copies" to implement Relative Adjustments.  A "Base copy" is updated via snapshots to retain the look of the snapshot without affecting adjustment sliders (sliders start at default/zero when created).  

My solution to Relative Develop Presets via "Base Copies"
(complete with fake toolbar buttons and commands):

1.  Make basic edits to original images until all images have desired/consistent look. 

2.  Select all adjusted images and click the option to make base copies for all selected images.  A "Base copy" retains the look of the original image, but the adjustment sliders appear at the default (zeroed out) position when created.  Creating a "Base copy" automatically creates a snapshot for reference.  

3.  Creatively edit one of the "Base copies" using presets or adjusting sliders/tone curve.  Quickly select all other base copies (see details below) and sync as desired.  Syncing only transfers the current values for the selected adjustments (inherited values from the original image will NOT sync).  Essentially a relative adjustment-images should maintain a consistent look because of this feature.

4. There needs to be a way to edit/update "Base copies" once they are created, and snapshots are the perfect way.  So, if an original image (or a virtual copy) is edited after a "Base copy" is made and you want the adjustments to be reflected in the "Base copy", selecting both copies and clicking update from the toolbar will automatically create a new snapshot and apply it to the "Base copy".  The "Base copy" will then have the updated look of the new snapshot, under any new adjustments, and the sliders will not be affected or reset.  You can undo the changes by selecting previous snapshots. 


More Details:
•In order to work well, I think the background of the "Base copy" thumbnails need to be visibly different than the other thumbnails.  So, after selecting as many original images (or virtual copies) as you want "base copies" of, you'll select a pattern for the "Base copy"backgrounds. It could be a dropdown menu in the toolbar with square patterns to choose from: thin diagonal, horizontal and vertical lines; and/or various shades of gray, etc..  You can create multiple "Base copies" for each file, each with a different background trait for quick selecting and sorting.   Instantly select all "Base copies" with a common trait by clicking on the matching pattern in the toolbar.

•As they are now, snapshots would be available for all copies with the same filename (original, "Base" or virtual copies). Selecting a snapshot from a virtual copy duplicates the settings and the look of the snapshot. Selecting a snapshot from a "Base copy", however, would NOT affect any adjustment sliders, and it would inherit the snapshot's look UNDER any additional adjustments applied.  Therefore, using a snapshot to update a "Base copy" that has additional adjustments applied would result in a different look than a virtual copy updated to the same snapshot.

•Syncing  would remain the same as now: all selected settings are synced from the initial image and changes are reflected in the adjustment slider values of the remaining selected images.  The values that are synced are the ones reflected by adjustment sliders.  Even though a "Base copy" retains settings from its original, it will only sync it's current slider values to another image.

•Presets would be applied the same as they are now (except they would finally work).  When applied, all adjustments sliders would reflect the values of the preset when saved.  

Sample Scenario:
1) Edit Original copy:
White Balance: temp: 4900, tint: -13
Exposure: +.30
Highlights: -40
Whites:  +10
Blacks: -10
Tone Curve: Custom preset called "Lift Mids"

2) Create a "BASE copy" (original copy's settings retained, but the sliders begin at zero).  A snapshot is automatically created as a reference point.  

3) Apply a B&W preset to "BASE copy":
WB: Temp: 28,000; Tint: -55
Contrast: +20
Shadows: +70
Blacks: -41
Tone Curve: Preset called "BW Clipping"

4)  Let's say you realize you need to bump up the temp +500 for an image to maintain consistency.  You could adjust the "Base copy", but you want to change it on the original copy so that it can be reflected in other "base copies" you may make for that image.  You go back to the original copy, add +500 temp; and create and name a new snapshot.  Select the original and the "Base copy", and click update button in the toolbar to create a new snapshot and update the look of the "Base copy."  The update will appear UNDER the existing adjustments, without affecting the current WB slider values (ex: Temp still= 28,000, even though you just added 500 to it via the snapshot).  

5)  Select all your "Base copies" and sync the desired settings!  While you're at it, create a preset to use for the next batch of pictures.  The chances of it working just went up exponentially (or something like that)!

This could make presets so much more useful and editing more efficient!!  And fun!  I wish I could implement it myself...