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Mon, Apr 16, 2018 6:07 PM

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Lightroom Classic: Preset works all the time with raw files but only some of the time with a JPG file

Lightroom 7.3 and osx 10.13.4

First, I would like to note that this is not the same as RAW and non-RAW specific presets.  In this case the preset does work with both RAW and JPG files, just not consistently.   

A preset in certain scenarios will work ALL the time with a RAW but only works SOME of the time with a JPG

Create a preset using the following method

Select photo and do a RESET so no settings are applied
Create a Preset called ZeroSaturation   (I think this can be any slider)
Save the preset with ONLY Saturation selected 






DO THE FOLLOWING WITH BOTH  RAW AND JPG FILES

Select photo
Do a RESET
Apply a Saturation that is not Zero
Apply the ZeroSaturation Preset.   (The Preset works with BOTH JPG and RAW)
Apply Dehaze
Apply Clarity
Select Dehaze
Apply the ZeroSaturation preset. (The Preset did NOT work the JPG)


History on RAW
As you can see the preset works all the time on the RAW.  When you execute the preset on the Dehaze step the history is cleared above Dehaze and the preset is executed and registered as a history step


History on JPG.    
As you can see the preset works on the JPG when the saturation is not zero but it does not not execute when the saturation is zero.  When you select Dehaze and execute the preset the history above Dehaze is Not cleared and the preset is not registered in history.  APPARENTLY NOTHING HAPPENS.  



I realize Saturation is already ZERO and the preset is not needed but the the behavior should be the same for both JPG and RAW and the preset should execute and be registered in history when pressed..   The JPG behavior is very disconcerting to the user because NOTHING happens.

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2 years ago

Lightroom Classic CC 7.5 was released today and should address this issue.  If you don’t see the update in your Creative Cloud App, hit the [Ctrl/Cmd]+ [Alt/Opt]+[R] to force a refresh. 

Give the new version a try and let us know if it solves the issue. 
 

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Hi Rikk,

I just tried this on 7.5 and scenario now works ALL the time on JPG files but is NOW broken on RAW files.  It is just the opposite of the original problem.  This is probably a bigger issue now as most people use Lightroom for RAW files and it is very disconcerting to not have a preset execute all the time.  To duplicate just change the original problem from RAW to JPG in all the examples.  It is 100% repeatable.  OSX 10.13.6 and Lightroom 7.5.  

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Thanks for the report, Robert. I am going to bring in one of the Lightroom Classic CC team to have a look. 
 

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Thanks Rikk,  Its 100% reproducible and is easy to test so should be a easy fix.

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3 years ago

Hello, you must always check "Process Version" because some commands are only available on the latest versions!

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3 years ago

Thanks for the reply but that is not the case here.  All the files are process version 4 and you can create the above preset from a JPG and check SATURATION and PROCESS and the bug still happens. 

As you can see from the screen shots the Preset will work on  RAW all the time but it only works on the JPG some of the time.  Its not that the preset doesn't work on the JPG.   The behavior should be consistent.  Its very disconcerting to the user when you press a preset and nothing happens.

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3 years ago

I get the same results -- strange bug.

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3 years ago

Thanks John for taking the time to confirm this. It’s an obscure bug and probably won’t get fixed but it is disconcerting when it happens.

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3 years ago

Do you still see the behavior in 7.3.1? 
 

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Thanks for the reply Rikk
Yes, the behavior is still in 7.3.1.    A given preset will work all the time on RAW but but only SOMETIMES on JPG and further tests show they only work SOMETIMES on TIFF also.  When it quits working on JPG and TIFF files is when the preset setting are the same as in the file.  For instance, in the above examples the preset just sets the saturation to ZERO.  If the saturation is not zero it works on JPG and TIFF files so its not that the preset never works.  If the saturation is zero than it just doesn't execute.  It will execute on a RAW if the saturation is zero.  It is VERY disconcerting to the user when you press a preset and NOTHING happens and in this case where the preset is not file type specific it should work the same in both cases.  It is easy to create a repeatable condition to make this happen so it should be easy for the developers to isolate the cause.  Just follow the above steps.  Thanks again for your attention on this issue.  The new stuff with Profiles and Presets is GREAT and I guess this is just part of the growing pains.

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3 years ago

Thanks for the update, Robert.  I am logging a bug on it. 
 

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Rikk

The behavior in the original post has changed in Lr 7.4 but it has changed for the worse.  Originally the behavior was correct for RAW files and random for non-RAW but now it is also random for RAW also and the behavior is VERY disconcerting to the user when they click a preset and nothing happens.  The issue is that if the settings in the Preset does not change any develop settings because the values are the same the preset will not execute.  In the following example the preset just changes the value of Clarity to +21.  If the clarity is not +21 the preset executes but if the value is already +21 it does NOTHING.  Its very disconcerting to the user to click a preset and not have it execute even though it changes nothing.  

This is a RAW file.  Same behavior on JPG and TIFF

Import file and change highlights and shadows



Select highlights and execute preset. "clarity 21"



change highlights and shadows again.   Select highlights and execute preset "clarity 21".  As you can see the preset is not executed.  


I think the preset should execute ALL the time to prevent the user from thinking something is wrong because NOTHING HAPPENS.

I appreciate your help on this.

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3 years ago

Thanks Rikk. Appreciate your help on this.  

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2 years ago

Robert, 

This behavior - while changed perhaps was not fixed. The bug for this issue is still open. I have added notes that there is additional information in this thread. 
 

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Thanks for the update Rikk

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2 years ago

Thanks for the report, Bob. Engineering has verified what you are seeing and reopened the issue. 
 

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Rikk
This is still an issue in Lr 8.0

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The thread is still marked "In Progress". When a fix is issued, we generally announce it in a post and set the thread to solved.
 

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Thanks for the update.

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Hi Rikk

Lightroom Classic 8.0 MacOS 10.13.6

I found another issue related to the original thread that is MORE than just disconcerting to the user but is a more serious problem.  This problem happens with ALL file types (The original problem NOW may affect all file types as Adobe supposedly tried to fix the issue and made it even worse as noted above.)

Create a preset that sets the Exposure to -1.50. and call it Minus Exp

Select 3 photos and reset all the adjustments.  (Notice the cat sitting up is the MOST SELECTED image.


Turn AUTOSYNC on

Apply Preset Minus Exp.  Al 3 photos will change which is the correct behavior.

 
Reset all the images again

Select only the sitting up cat and apply the preset Minus Exp


Select all the images again with AUTOSYNC still turned on with the sitting up cat as the MOST SELECTED image and apply preset Minus Exp


As you can see the preset DOES NOT EXECUTE.   This can be confirmed by looking at the History of the MOST SELECTED photo.

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I must be missing something in your steps, Robert.  I tried multiple times and in the last step, the remaining two images updated to use the -1.5 preset in all cases. 

The history on my system is correct also. 10.14.1
 

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Rikk
I restarted the computer and tried this again and it still doesn't work in the last step.

The easiest way to try this is to do the following.



1.    Have a preset that only does the minus 1.5 exposure (it could be contrast, clarity etc)

2.    Start with 3 photos that have NO edits.  (They can have edits but it is easier to show if they are similar without edits)

3.    Select one photo and apply the preset. (it changes)

4     Make sure AutoSync is ON

5     Use Shift-Click to select a couple other photos making sure the photo selected in step 3 is still the MOST SELECTED

6.   Apply the preset.   (The other 2 don't change)

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They change here.  
 

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I changes for me if I do anything to the Most Selected photo that adds a history stemp before trying to apply it to the other 2 photos but it doesn't if the last history step in the Most Selected photo is the preset I am trying to apply.  I could send you a movie if that would help.

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Are you using Develop or Quick Develop to (Reset, Apply Preset)?

Quick Develop works - likely because the preset is only applied to one of the 3 images and it picks up the 2 unapplied images and leaves the Active alone.

Develop doesn't but I am betting it is as-designed behavior. You can't apply a preset to Active image twice. So essentially, you are doing nothing here when you apply the preset a second time. 
 

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Develop for all of them.    I think if the original bug in this post has something to do with this behavior and is why I posted in this thread.    I discovered this as I apply a preset in develop and if like the look I then select other photos by shift-click with auto sync on and immediately try to apply that preset.  It used to work.  Now I have to do a command-z to get rid of the preset in the most selected and then shift-click the others and then it works.  Or just select the others.   If the effect is subtile I may forget to do this.

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 Rikk

Thanks for the clarification.  can confirm the difference you explained between library and develop.  

I can see what you are saying that this is designed behavior in the Develop module as the preset shouldn't be applied twice in a row but it is a surprising behavior when you first encounter it. With Autosync in Develop if the command isn't executed on the most selected than it won't apply to the other photos.   I thought it used to work differently but maybe I am mistaken.  

I still hope the original issue in this thread gets resolved.  Any word on its resolution?


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Thanks Rikk.

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Rikk

While working on the recent issue I noticed something in the history panel and command-z's I was doing that may help solve the ORIGINAL problem.

Create a preset called TEST that changes the Exposure

Select a photo

Apply preset. TEST. (Its added to History)

Add Contrast.  (Its added to History)

Apply preset TEST  (Its not added to History) (It appears to the user it didn't work!)

Add Highlights.  (Its added to History)

Do an Undo.   (popup says "Undo Highlights")

Do an Undo.  (popup says "Undo preset TEST" although this step is not in History)

Do an Undo.  (popup says "Undo Contrast)


It appears that the problem is that the second application of TEST is being correctly applied IF CHANGES ARE MADE IN HISTORY after the first application of TEST but the step is not recorded in History.   Previous versions of Lightroom before Lr7 would record this in History.  Not recording the step in history is what is disconcerting to the user and should be fixed.

I do agree that TEST should not be applied twice in a row but if an edit step is done after the first application of TEST is should apply AND BE RECORDED IN HISTORY a second time.  It used to previous to Lr7