CarlosFerrari's profile

15 Messages

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250 Points

Mon, Dec 14, 2020 8:45 PM

Lightroom Classic & Desktop: disk read/write to SSD M1 Macs with Rosetta

Hi.
I'v just installed LR Classic on my M1 Macbook pro with 8G/256GB, and LR is broken.
It works blazing fast, but as fast it's destroying my SSD.
It wrote around 100GB of data in 15 minutes.

I have uploaded this video showing the issue. When culling a folder with around 1800 photos it wrote 7GB of data to the SSD in 30 seconds. (standard previews already created)

 

https://youtu.be/FWzdGvPWLfU


There's no way these SSD's will survive this. 
Adobe need to do something ASAP!

Specs:
Macbook Pro M1 8GB/256GB
LR Classic V10.1

Responses

5 Messages

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108 Points

4 m ago

Still no response from Adobe? 

I noticed this issue the moment I started using my 16GB M1 Mini. This will destroy the SSD way too fast. 

I'm actually scared to use Lightroom because of it... but since I'm a photographer it's (together with photoshop) the most important software I use. 

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Lightroom is not yet supported on the M1. Supported neither by Adobe nor Apple. It is running under Rosetta so no guarantees. Adobe has announced that there will be a native mode, no date yet. 

  

16 Messages

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232 Points

I'm probably stating that for the fifth time but:

The same thing happens with Adobe Lightroom (CC, not Classic) that has Apple Sillicon native version and is supported by Adobe on the M1 machines.
It has nothing to do with Rosetta. It seems like it's the problem with Adobe's graphic acceleration implementation that seems to have some memory leaking when interacting with unified memory of M1 systems. 

PS. I opened a separate thread in Lightroom forum to highlight how it's not Classic-specific issue but it's been closed for being a duplicate. 

15 Messages

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250 Points

@jochenb

It's been labeled as "In Progress" so they have acknowledged and should be working on it.

Let's hope the fix come before our ssd's die.

On the meantime work with smart previews and if you have your images in an external disk (as I do) eject it.... it will easy the random writing.

5 Messages

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108 Points

Thank you for the tip. 

I normally don't work with smart previews, because my drives are always connected. 

However, I've now been generating smart previews for my photos and disconnect the drives whenever possible. Only when I need to export I connect the drive. 

This way there's indeed no excessive writing to the SSD. 

So for now this is the only real workaround for me. 

Disabling the gpu acceleration doesn't fix anything. When I keep my drives connected for a even a fairly short moment with it disabled the crazy writing/reading still happens. Many gigabytes in only a short amount of time.  

6 Messages

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114 Points

4 m ago

Can confirm this on the Mac Mini M1 (16/512) also. Just did some scrolling and a couple of light edits and in just a few short minutes it was already 70gb in Kernel writes.

3 Messages

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126 Points

4 m ago

Disabling Graphics accelleration fixed this issue for me on my Mac mini M1

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

There was a memory leak in macOS for Intel processors that was fixed with 11.2. It's possible that Apple hasn't yet applied this fix to the M1 version of macOS. So I'd recommend that you stay on top of the Mac updates from Apple. 

8 Messages

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154 Points

4 m ago

Same problem for me. Macbook M1 8GB ram / 256GB disk and Lightroom Classic 10.1.1.


Even without GPU acceleration, I notice that each time I switch in develop mode to another picture (without doing anything, just switching to it), I have spikes of up to 150MB/s of writes to disk for few seconds. The picture itself is around 30MB, it does not make sense

(edited)

8 Messages

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154 Points

4 m ago

I have made a further experiment (still with graphic acceleration off, just in case).

Restarted my pc, opened only Lightroom Classic and started some standard processing for 32 raw files of 24MPixel (1GB total disk usage).

The process itself, without saving anything to disk increased disk usage by 10 GB. That's ok-ish while still really strange.

The craziness started when I wanted to save the JPGs on disk. I exported them twice (one full res, one lower res for web). Space on disk used by the written pictures: 780 MB.
 

I have checked while the export was ongoing and I saw really huge write bandwidth to disk, with writes at up to 450 MB/s (yes, bytes!). That would be great if the export lasted few seconds but it was more in the range of minutes.

What is the result? 87 GB written by kernel_task, to write on disk only 780MB!
Since the restart the PC has already written 100GB to disk just for 32 pictures.
This is just crazy and unacceptable

(edited)

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Why are you wasting your time on this? Lightroom Classic is not yet supported on the M1, Adobe is putting their efforts into porting it to the native M1 platform. They are not going to slow down that effort to work on fixes to something that will be dead in the next few months. 

16 Messages

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232 Points

@bill_3305731 why are you refuisng to acknowledge that this issue is affecting M1-native Lightroom CC and as such has nothing to do with running x8664 Lightroom Classic through Rosetta? It has been repeated multiple times and it seems you’re wasting your time with your pointless comments. 

5 Messages

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108 Points

This is not wasting time at all. This is a very serious problem.

As mentioned earlier in this thread the native M1 Lightroom CC also has it. 

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Adobe is not going to fix unsupported software. 

8 Messages

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154 Points

Point 1: From adobe website (https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/macos-big-sur-compatibility.html#AppleSiliconcompatibility):

"There are no known issues specific to running Lightoom Classic 10.x under Rosetta 2 emulation mode on Apple devices with M1 processors running macOS BigSur (version 11)." 

Point 2: Same issue has been reported by people using Lightroom CC, already ported for Apple Fusion. So I would not say that is something that is planned to disappear with the porting for Apple Fusion unless Adobe does something (maybe only on the M1 version but they need to know there is an issue so they can act on that)

Point 3: I have migrated from my old 10 years old laptop to this Macbook following reviews that Lightroom did not have any problems running on it (and apart from the disk writes that is a huge issue, I did not see any perf problem with it). I have no easy way to go back to my old PC so I need to "waste my time on this" or just wait months before doing anything with my pictures hoping that the issue will be magically solved by the Apple Fusion release

5 Messages

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108 Points

@bill_330573 You really don't seem to get it do you? Since the natively supported M1 Lightroom CC also has this problem this won't have anything to do with the Rosetta 2 emulation. 

It's a good thing that we keep mentioning the issue here, because it's a very serious one. 

Most users won't ever notice it, but will be very surprised when their still fairly new computer will have already died so soon. 

(edited)

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Lightroom CC is not Lightroom Classic and should be reported as a problem against that product. 

 

15 Messages

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250 Points

Let's not feed the troll....

3 Messages

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126 Points

Could this be related somehow?

15 Messages

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250 Points

I'v been reading there, seems not related at all. Adobe LR has a big memory leak (probably related to GPU acceleration/previews) that puts pressure on ram and the usage of swap goes sky high.

Here's my data,

=== START OF SMART DATA SECTION ===

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02)

Critical Warning:                   0x00

Temperature:                        38 Celsius

Available Spare:                    100%

Available Spare Threshold:          99%

Percentage Used:                    0%

Data Units Read:                    30,112,747 [15.4 TB]

Data Units Written:                 23,674,136 [12.1 TB]

Host Read Commands:                 256,124,100

Host Write Commands:                152,605,639

Controller Busy Time:               0

Power Cycles:                       219

Power On Hours:                     156

Unsafe Shutdowns:                   20

Media and Data Integrity Errors:    0

Error Information Log Entries:      0


I'v been cautious when using LR to be able to work, quitting adobe cc, brave/safari, spotfy / dropbox etc etc and leaving the computer only with LR open... with smart previews and acceleration disabled. It has helped a lot to minimize writings.

8 Messages

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154 Points

If it would be due to graphic acceleration then disabling it would solve the issue. In my case the 100 GB write for 700 MB written on disk was with graphical acceleration off

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

The Lightroom memory leak on Intel was a bug in macOS that was fixed with 11.2. It's possible that the fix has not been forward-fit to the M1 version of macOS. 

8 Messages

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154 Points

Not sure what was the behaviour of the memory leak found on Intel architecture but by definition a memory leak is "memory not released".
If it was a memory leak, it would have led to having constant writes to swap memory (so the disk).
Instead, if not moving between pictures (or even worse, saving them to disk), disk usage seems fine, even after those huge spikes of disk writes.

(edited)

7 Messages

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144 Points

I also have this same issue with Mac Mini M1 Big Sur 11.2.1 and Lightroom Classic 10.1.1 (i.e. all current as of 23 Feb 2021).  16Gig of RAM.

It seems to be develop module that causes it.  If I go into DM and make edits to say 50 or 60 photos I can incur 200 Gigabytes of writes to the disk.

This is crazy.  I can otherwise open every other app on my machine and get only a few hundred meg of writes.  As soon as I go into Develop module I get insane disk writes.

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Lightroom Classic is not supported on the M1. It's coming but not here yet. 

7 Messages

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144 Points

Dude, LRC works perfectly on the MAC under Rosetta.  It has not been ported to run natively on Apple silicon as yet.  However, Lightroom Cloud/Web HAS been so ported and it also shows the disk thrash issue.

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

4 m ago

The problem reported with with disk activity on the M1 by Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic is being reported by many other software products. So I'd like to suggest the following test which my wife and I performed when working with Apple support to confirm the memory leak in MacOS on Intel that was fixed with 11.2. 

  • Apple Photos application 
  • import 3-400 photos (we hit the problem at just under 300) 
  • create an album of all the photos 
  • export the album as a FHD video 
  • monitor the memory and swapfile growth during the export

If it grows continuously to a very high value then report it to Apple. 

 

On our Intel iMac 2020, eventually Apple Photos crashed. Works fine since MacOS 11.2. 

 

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled M1 test suggested re high disk activity

3 Messages

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90 Points

4 m ago

Hi Carlos. I read your post where you stated you did not think the M1 problem with massive SSD writes is related to the Adobe probable memory 'leak.' Does that mean you think a person could have BOTH problems? I have a new M1 Mini, 16/1TB and am running BigSur 11.2.1 and the current version of LR Classic (which I'm now concerned about using). I'm not too handy with the back end of MacOS. Can you please say where you got the stats report you posted (is there an app, etc?). Thanks in advance.

6 Messages

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114 Points

@rdgerdes I think there are two problems in combination: 

at first there are problems with Big Sur, especially with the M1 Macs causing high swapping writes. This seems to happen with all kind of Programms, when you follow the comments in the linked macrumors article some posts above. 

In addition Lightroom Classic AND Lightroom CC (M1 native) are causing extremely high write rates. I think this is caused by the GPU acceleration, which might using the unified memory of the M1 the wrong way: 

On my 16GB model, LrC says, that an M1 graphic processor with 10.5 GB GPU memory is available - which is part of the RAM of course. Now the following is happening when Lightroom puts high memory pressure on the RAM (caused by GPU acc.): 

The GPU acceleration is writing many different temporary files to the RAM, like caches of the image you are editing, and renderings for filters etc. These files are changing fast, with every editing step. But because they are in the RAM they will get swapped out to the SSD when RAM will be full. These might be happening every second, so you have these massive disk writes caused by swapping. 
When you are switching off the GPU acceleration, the disk writes goes down, so the described problem is very plausible to me.

It would be better when other parts of LrC memory is swapped instead of the GPU memory parts. 

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

@rdgerdes

 

There is a wide range of software reporting this problem: games, business software, browsers, social media, etc. Some native mode and some under Rosetta. The common thread is macOS on the M1 processor. 

 

We had the same problem on Intel that was fixed with macOS V11.2.

 

My guess is that the fix to the Intel version has not yet been applied to the M1 version. But at this point there's no reason to suspect that this is an Adobe bug.

  

3 Messages

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90 Points

That makes me wonder if it can be fixed for M1 Macs. I've read other posts saying RAM is RAM, etc. It all works the same. But if M1s are actually different in how they allow swapping to access the SSD and not just RAM, seems as though this could be hard to fix as it kind of negates the reason to have that kind of RAM. Lots to learn ahead.

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Swapping is back and forth between ram and a drive. On Intel it was a bug in macOS which could be true in this case. I suggest that you do some reading about paging and swapping, a fun topic for some. 

3 Messages

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90 Points

Saw this just now...fingers crossed: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-mac-users-report-excessive-ssd-wear.2285892/post-29640449

6 Messages

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114 Points

Unfortunately it does not. Edited 3 RAW files in LrC, kernel_task has written 6 gigabytes in about 5 minutes. 

8 Messages

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154 Points

That’s too bad! I will make a test in the weekend just to double check but at least the usb-c issue seems was fixed (I am one of the unlucky ones that got his new MacBook bricked by an Aukey Hub).

Only one (big) problem left to solve for me 😄

7 Messages

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144 Points

Oh no. We will have to keep waiting then 🙈🙄

8 Messages

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154 Points

4 m ago

So, I did a new experiment after the update to Big Sur 11.2.2.

As usual, I restarted the PC and kept only Lightroom open. At start, disk write was of 330MB (fresh restart).

I processed 69 RAW files, with total size 2.1GB.

Memory usage started in the range of 2GB, after one hour it was at 6 GB.
At that point swapping was getting intense (leading to 10 GB written by kernel_task in few minutes). I restarted Lightroom and continued. The following hour, not doing anything different, memory usage stabilised in the 4.5GB range.

After developing all those RAW files, kernel_task had already written 15GB but ok, nothing critical.
Written 69x2 pictures to disk (twice, one full res and one for web). Total size of the pictures: 1.2GB
Disk written before: 15.13 GB, after 88.19 GB
So, still crazy amount (80x the amount of actual picture data written) but it looks more or less 2-3x less than my previous try before the update.

8 Messages

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154 Points

3 m ago

There has just been an update to Lightroom Classic (version 10.2). Has anyone already tried if it improves anything?

15 Messages

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250 Points

does not improve... it's getting worse lol

30 Messages

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410 Points

3 m ago

What happened to this issue, is it resolved? Everything seems to have gone quiet.

I was about to pull the trigger on an M1 Mac Mini, primary use would be for LR, so I really want to know if this gone for good before I do!

3 Messages

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92 Points

Still an issue unfortunately.... 

7 Messages

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144 Points

Internet forums are full of this issue and a ton of YouTube videos also.  It may not be an issue with Adobe and Lightroom and something more fundamental to the M1 and the way it uses memory and SSD.  Which is good of course since Apple can then address it as part of the OS.  Naturally, Apple are Zen like silent on the issue and my money is that it will just be silently addressed in an OSX update.

15 Messages

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250 Points

@james_whitehouse_3796053 

I have developed a way to almost stop the kernel disk writes, it's a pain but i'm doing it and hoping for a fix soon.

Quit every application and run only LR (google drive, browser, adobe cloud, dropbox etc) We must ensure all the ram is available to LR so it's gonna use swap less. Turn graphic acceleration OFF in options.


1. have your files in an external driver
2. import files to LR

3. create standard previews for culling

4. create smart previews of the selected files

5. disconnect external storage (to force LR use smart previews for developing)

6. develop your files

7. quit LR (important to clear ram, otherwise it will use stored info on ram to export files)

8. open LR again, connect your drive and export.

:(

(edited)

3 Messages

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82 Points

Lightroom has memory leaks in both m1 systems and Windows. Closing and reopening seems to fix it for me. This is a Lightroom problem, not a problem exclusive to m1. Adobe knows about it and they don't care. I've been writing them about it for literally years, every time a "Would you recommend Lightroom?" dialogue box pops up.

30 Messages

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410 Points

Windows too? Great. I was just about to start considering something like an HP Z2 Mini G5 instead of the M1 Mac this time around.

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Not an issue on Windows. I made a couple edits to an image and then synced it to over 1,000 images. No problem. If you do some web searches, you'll find that this is a widespread M1 problem and not isolated to Lightroom.

Furthermore some folks think that applications need less RAM on the M1 and are buying 8GB machines. No matter the architecture, an application needs the same amount of RAM, possibly more due to Rosetta. For adequate performance, Lightroom needs 16GB at minimum. For heavy use, at least 32 GB. 

6 Messages

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114 Points

It IS a problem under windows too. For example: 

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/vram-memory-leak-still-not-fixed/m-p/10835594

Under windows Lightroom eats up all available GPU memory (from the dedicated GPU). On the M1 the same happens, with the 16 GB model, the M1 graphic processor shows up with 10 GB memory in the LrC GPU settings. And because Lightroom is using the 10 GB completely it ist "forcing" MacOS to start swapping.

Cannot believe your beloved Lightroom is the source of evil? Switching off the GPU acceleration shows the proof: With completely disabled GPU acc. the swapping problem ist completely gone, with basic GPU acc. the swapping gets much better. 

That is not an Apple-only issue. LrC is provoking high swapping by regardless resource usage especially on the GPU memory side.

On a windows machine with unified memory an the same swapping capability the problem would the same. 

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

3 m ago

Fact of life for any new technology, always wait for version 3 or suffer the consequences. 

2 Messages

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74 Points

@bill_3305731 thanks Bill, helpful as ever! "Version 3" of new tech only fixes problems like these because of people like the ones in this thread being willing to adopt new things and report on problems. 

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Of course you are right and those of us who prefer reliable systems are the beneficiaries. But there's a big difference between reporting and whining. 

30 Messages

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410 Points

3 m ago

Thanks guys.

That’s annoying that it is still an issue.


@CarlosFerrari thanks for the procedure - that is a pain, though, you’re right!

In terms of this being an issue only in LR, what happens if Bridge/ACR is used? Using ACR outside of LR might narrow down whether it’s a memory leak within LR itself or something about the way Adobe are using the raw processing module re: the M1 chip...?

I’d test myself, but don’t have an M1 yet.

I haven’t seen many reports of this extending outside of LR to other apps, though, how widespread is it (or not) for you guys on your own systems with other software? [edit: I discovered that it does appear to be an issue outside of LR also].

(edited)

30 Messages

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410 Points

3 m ago

In terms of not trashing the (non-user replaceable) internal SSD is it an option to use an external SSD to boot, or run LrC from in the mean time? Say Thunderbolt 3 with a low-ish capacity NVMe drive which isn't expensive enough to worry about throwing away if it gets destroyed...?

If so, does this have to be the boot drive, or can one assign a drive for LR to scratch from, or just move the catalog/preview files there, etc.?

135 Messages

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2.1K Points

3 m ago

If this forum had a "block" function we all know who'd be blocked by a LOT of Mac users who come here and seek ACTUAL help with their problems, instead of snide remarks from an old Windows guy.

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

Advertising your ignorance again. You really hate it when reality gets in the way of your wishful thinking. 

7 Messages

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190 Points

@Alexander 

It’s clear that this issue is not a priority for the Lightroom team, seeing as no team member/representative has provided an update on this issue here. That they have let users such as bill_3305731 hinder the progress of this issue here is another clear indication.

Maybe they will only address this retrospectively, since they have no incentive to be proactive about this at this stage. Possibly only when more users start noticing and the issue reaches the industry news headlines.

I’ve started looking at alternatives to switch over to. I hope this gets fixed soon for the sake of all paying Lightroom users.

(edited)

30 Messages

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410 Points

Agreed. Ridiculous there’s not even a word of a fix in the works.

I’m afraid that does give a strong impression of not caring about your customers.

Colour me unimpressed.

1 Message

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60 Points

2 m ago

Thank you CarlosFerrari for initially bringing this topic to light! Has anyone heard any updates outside of this thread? I have a lot of editing to do, and this is really putting a damper on the volume I can process. 

1.1K Messages

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12.5K Points

The current Lightroom is not supported on the M1, use at your own risk. Adobe is developing a M1 specific version.