B

6 Messages

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122 Points

Wed, Oct 21, 2020 1:38 AM

9

Lightroom Classic Color Grading tool needs additional saturation controls.

Perhaps it's because this grew out of the split-toning feature, but this new tool seems to miss the most important functionality of a "color wheels" grading feature, which is to independently control saturation of highlights, midtones, and shadows.  The current tool always applies a tint to the various tonal regions, and only allows you to increase saturation of that tint. Fine for your favorite weird color effect, but the saturation sliders for each region should be independent of a tint, allowing the user to increase or decrease the saturation of native colors of the document separately in highlight, mids and shadows. Its a powerful feature that all video coloring programs have, and none of adobe's photography apps have. I was so surprised to see this functionality didn't exist in this new tool considering how it's been hyped.

Responses

2.1K Messages

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24.8K Points

6 m ago

Perhaps it's because this grew out of the split-toning feature, but this new tool seems to miss the most important functionality of a "color wheels" grading feature, which is to independently control saturation of highlights, midtones, and shadows. 

Did you try clicking one of the three individual buttons for Shadow/midtone/highlight, then holding down the shift key to move the color to a higher saturation? Sounds like you want the opposite (to reduce saturation)? 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

6 Messages

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122 Points

Yes...I tried all the features of the tool. The problem is that the tool is designed to add a tint to the selected tonal region...the saturation slider lets you increase the amount of that tint. Again...fine for whatever weird color you want....but...to make this a proper color tool, not an "effect" tool...we need to be able to adjust the saturation of the native colors in the document in each of those tonal regions independently. So...yes, negative values on the slider, but that affect the native colors in both directions without applying a tint. In the video realm, Look at Final Cut Pro, Davinci Resolve, even Premiere etc...all have 2-3 tools that do this, many of them are "color wheel" tools that look just like this new one in LRC. (except that LR lacks this core functionality.). 

174 Messages

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3K Points

6 m ago

I haven't upgraded yet, so couldn't see what you describe. However, I just wanted to share a short demo of the feature by Matt Klaskowski, which I thought showed the different ways to use the new color grading tools (including the ability to control the saturation of the color grading added to each of the 3 tone areas independently). It sounds as if your issue may be related to the use of the Shift key (or not) to control the amount of saturation, and/or the use of the Blending slider (which, if moved away from its central point,  might blend the colours you've added by any of the colour wheels into the other tonal areas even if you haven't added a colour grade to those other areas).

Let us know if any of this solves (or explains more about) the issue you raised - it starts from the 7:12 mark in his video: https://mattk.com/whats-new-in-lightroom-october-2020-update/ 

(edited)

6 Messages

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122 Points

Unfortunately the tool doesn’t work that way. As Matt says in his video.. it’s designed around adding a tint, and you can’t adjust saturation without adding a tint. The slider has no negative value.. thus set to zero it represents no tint.. as you increase the saturation by using the slider or using the shift key and the control point in the color wheel (they do the same thing) you increase the amount of the tint color in that region. Essentially this is half of what a color grading tool should do. The other half being the ability to control saturation of each tonal region independently, without a tint being applied. 

6 Messages

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122 Points

@edmund_gall  @andrew_rodney  here is a video I made to illuminate the issue we're discussing. https://vimeo.com/470656952

174 Messages

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3K Points

Thanks, Barry! Your video clarifies it. The existing HSL tool in Lr won't help to solve the issue either, as that tool's effect is globally applied to all tone areas (no control to limit specifically to hi-, mid-, or lo-tones - can only apply to specific colours)...

616 Messages

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12.4K Points

6 m ago

I think what you're looking for is the possibilities of what's in the HSL panel in the color wheels? 

6 Messages

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122 Points

Not sure what you're saying there, Jerry.  But maybe this will help explain the problem. https://vimeo.com/470656952

616 Messages

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12.4K Points

I've just re-read what I typed(whilst in the middle of rushing around) and it makes no sense. What I meant to say was, I think what you're looking for in the color wheels, is a function that "already exist" in the HSL panel but looking at the video you posted, your suggestion is different and welcomed I would say.  

(edited)

6 Messages

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122 Points

Actually, it doesn't exist in the HSL panel. That's always been the problem. The HSL panel is a variation on "selective color" from photoshop...it's a great tool, and gives you a granular way of adjusting specific hues... but it doesn't allow you to adjust the saturation of the shadows independently from the highlights, or mid-tones...which is an important ability.  (I've had workarounds for this in PS  for centuries.)This new "color grading" is a strange beast...it looks like a color grading tool, they call it a color grading tool...but it doesn't do what every other color grading tool on the market does. 

(edited)

616 Messages

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12.4K Points

I agree with you, it doesn't exist - I upvoted your idea as well. As you rightly said, it grew out of split toning and I believe it was intended as such but with a color grading interface but things can be improved. 

Champion

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2.3K Messages

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38.6K Points

6 m ago

Agreed, you've got my vote!

Champion

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5.8K Messages

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100.3K Points

6 m ago

Thanks for calling this out. I agree that calling this three-wheeled tool "color grading" is confusing, given that the term "color grading" comes from the video world and their three-wheeled tools behave much differently.

To adjust HSL separately for highlights, midtones, and shadows independently, I use the gradient filter local adjustment with a luminance range mask. I've got presets to make this go faster, but it's still fussy. I can see how the video color-grading wheels could be more convenient for the most common situations.

2.1K Messages

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24.8K Points

 I agree that calling this three-wheeled tool "color grading" is confusing

I wouldn't put much into the names Adobe (and other companies) use for their controls. There's a slider in LR/ACR called "Exposure" and it has absolutely nothing to do with exposure. .

As Bruce Fraser once wrote:

But the whole question is kinda like, "Which is better for removing a brain tumor? A Black and Decker cordless screwdriver, or the thingie on Swiss Army Knives for taking stones outta horses' hooves?" 

Should there be an option to reduce saturation in the slider(s)? Yes. And a similar UI is ages old shows this from Adobe on their DNG Profile Editor:

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

19 Messages

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278 Points

6 m ago

A desaturation slider for shadows, midtones & lights would be fine.

Actually you can just add a certain color and saturation to the specific areas. But you cannot desaturate the image only in the highlights or shadows. This would be helpful to reduce a color cast for example only in the highlights but keep the color in the mid-tones as original. This would be more precise than the overall saturation & vibrance slider.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Lightroom Classic Color Grading needs desaturating slider

131 Messages

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2.5K Points

On this page we learn that we can "Adjust the hue, saturation, and luminance of your midtones, shadows, or highlights to your preference by moving the center point of each wheel for hue and saturation, and the slider below each wheel for luminance. You can also use the knob on the outside of the circles to adjust hue by itself." and that "Holding the Shift key will restrict wheel movement for Saturation adjustments only. Holding the Ctrl key on Windows or Command key on macOS will restrict wheel movement fo Hue adjustments only."


40 Messages

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698 Points

 "This would be more precise than the overall saturation & vibrance slider."

Have you tried to use Luminance Range Masking in the Local Adjustment tools?

19 Messages

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278 Points

I do know that. But the thing is, the actual saturation slider only defines the amount of added color hue. But you cannot set negative saturation to reduce all colors in the highlights or shadows. 

Saturation "0" means the is no effect added.

You just can add a color to the area, but you cannot go to the other side and subtract saturation like in the main saturation slider for the whole image.

19 Messages

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278 Points

The Range Masking would be the alternate solution.

But than you can do all of the color grading with Range Masking.

If there is a special tool for color grading, you should be able to do everything with it.

It is a suggestion.