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5 Messages

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2.4K Points

Fri, Apr 1, 2011 6:18 AM

228

Lightroom Classic: Better keyword management

How about some better support for keyword management. It's very basic now. I would like to do the following tasks:- Delete multiple keywords at once. Not all plugins do handle hierarchy keywords well and add all the keywords to the root level. It's a tedious task to delete them one by one.- Search for duplicates.- Merge keywords. With lots of tricks, it can be done, but it's so inefficient.- Import keywords from within any level in the keyword hierarchy. Now you can only import keywords to the root level.- And for now last but most important: Real external editing of the keyword list. Moving keywords around and doing real heavy reorganization is difficult in LR. I would like to have an editing option like exporting and when reimported all changes are reflected in LR.

Responses

62 Messages

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1.8K Points

5 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Photoshop: Provide a way to mass change keyword attributes across multiple keywor....

Keywording: Provide a way to mass change keyword attributes across multiple keywords at a time. For example, highlight several Kewords using the Shift or Ctrl keys, then right click one of them and check or uncheck one or more of the checkboxes. The ones changed will be changed in all highlighted Keywords and untouched check boxes will be left alone.

149 Messages

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3.3K Points

This is a good idea. The current one by one is horribly tedious. 

-louie

7 Messages

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216 Points

5 years ago

Yes, this would also be a great feature! Tired of having to use external tools or use lots of valuable time taking care of these basic tasks.

16 Messages

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382 Points

5 years ago

Yes, in addition to better keywords, it is critical that the metadata remain persistent. There is a problem now that many social media sites, remove metadata from files upon ingestion. It is critical that Adobe exert their influence to preserve the metadata hard-working photographers attach and embed in their files.

2 Messages

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60 Points

4 years ago

"Merge keywords. With lots of tricks, it can be done, but it's so inefficient."
How?

475 Messages

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10.5K Points

Go to Keyword panel. Find the keyword that you want to delete. Click on the right arrow to just show all photos with that keyword. Select all. Find the keyword you want to merge to. Click it to set that keyword in all these photos. Then click the old keyword to unset it in all these photos. Then right click the old keyword and delete the keyword.

488 Messages

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12.3K Points

this process will not work if some images with the KW being merged are buried in collapsed stacks.  First you need to Expand all stacks that may have images with the keyword.  However, many times it's hard to know which folders those are.  So, you have expand all stacks first.  Then Alan's process will work but if you have 10's of thousands of images it's quite a bit of processing and time and then you lose any sense you've applied to which stacks are collapsed vs expanded.  

An alternative method is to create a temporary smart collection where the only rule is that the images have the keyword you want to merge into another.  Smart collections show all images that meet the criteria regardless of stack status.  Then click on the smart collection and select all images and continue with Alan's steps. 

9 Messages

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404 Points

I have no idea how a company adobe can let such a silly system remain. Its' 1960's stuff to come up with a system in which, if I provide <keyword1>,..<keywordn>, it will retrieve every entry that has <keyword1>^..^<keywordn>. (Position independent conjunctive search)This is known to be surprisingly good at retrieving things, because the user does not need to know which attribute has the required keyword.
Now, this can be combined with a simple, attribute independent Boolean search, and then also an attribute based Boolean search. All cases can (given the small size of even the largest collections) allow for unix style wild characters and keywords. The queries can return lists which can be toggled to display other attributes such as locations and folders., and link to them.
Then, as another option, some of the really complex, LR dependent searches can be allowed for.
All these can easily coexist, and, an organisation like adobe can do it all.
BTW, they are not the only ones who mess things like this up!
Karl Reed

475 Messages

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10.5K Points

Dan

I am sure your comments are correct (I have never used stacks), but your proposed solution runs into another deficiency in Lightroom -- you can't have smart collections with exact match of a keyword. This problem is at least 5 years old, and is especially annoying for those of us who use multi-word keywords. Given your comments about stacks, I guess it is "inefficient" if not "annoyingly difficult" to merge keywords.

488 Messages

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12.3K Points

Ahh, good point if you need an exact match.  There are a couple of ways to deal with that in my example with Smart Collections.   One is to put 2 rules in the smart collection, one using "Starts with" and the other using "Ends with" and put the entire keyword into both arguments.  

A second, and simpler, approach is to first bugger up the keyword.  Let's say the keyword is "Red Race Car",  Right click on it and change it to jibberish (e.g.  "QWERTYUIO").  It doesn't really matter what you use as we'll be deleting the entire KW once it's images are merged into another KW anyway.  Just pick text that you are sure doesn't appear (in whole or in part) in any other KW.  Then use the jibberish KW in the Smart Collection Rule using either "contains" or "contains all" and only images with that jibberish KW will be found 

Dan

2 Messages

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60 Points

Ahh, not the kind of merge i'm trying to do.

I want to merge keywords from the picture into catalog of LR. 'Read metadata from file' replace the keywords in the catalog with the keywords in the picture. I want to merge them to LR catalog.

Just to clarify; the keywords saved in the picture was added to files after the picture was added to the LR catalog.

14 Messages

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294 Points

4 years ago

I wish lightroom would allow keywords or at least the first N letters of the keywords to show up as headers or footers on the grid and loupe view.  I get 1000 videos that each have to have one keyword attached.  most of the time each one is different from the previous and most of the time they follow in a more or less expected sequence.  if i could see the keywords i have already attached, it would be much less confusing - i would be able to quickly find all the videos that havent been keyworded without hiding the ones that have been keyworded.  if i hide the keyworded files, then i cant remember where i was in the sequence.  thee problems plus the fact that videos do not play automatically when you open them in the loupe view means that i find Dopus easier to use for this task.  and like others have said, why cant we have batch renames for keywords?  and better batch renames for files too.   

475 Messages

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10.5K Points

I do all of my file renaming outside of Lightroom (using A Better Finder Rename 10 before adding the files to Lightroom), but you are aware of the renaming abilities baked into Jeffrey Friedl's Collection Publisher? I haven't used them, but they look pretty powerful.

488 Messages

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12.3K Points

you don't say if the video's come with KW's or you add them.  If you add them yourself, try putting the KW text into the "Copy" field in the metadata panel at the same time you create the KW.  Copy name is easily added to the fields displayed in the grid.

Not sure what you mean by batch rename for KW's?  If you have a KW named "Red" and want to rename it "Pink" for all images that have it, just right click the KW, select edit and type "Pink" right over "Red" and then click Save.  All images that had "red" will now have "pink".  Is that what you're talking about or something else?

Can you be more specific about what you think is missing in batch file rename?  I used LR file rename regularly and find it good enough.

14 Messages

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294 Points

Alan- I should look into Friedl's collection publisher - it might be a solution, thank you.
Dan- the videos (of one sign each from different sign languages) arrive from all over the world in all different formats (which incidentally lightroom cannot always handle, but possibly that is my computer not lightroom).  They are also named just about anything you can imagine, and i want to rename them to a standard format so they have a keyword gloss, a version number, a language identifier, a signer identification, a creation date in the format 20160721 and then a "sequence number" that connects the renamed video to the original name so that if i need to i can go back and match this video to an original unrenamed version.   a sample video would look like: sheepvv1lxrw1sg210dt20160721sqAed893xyz. 
i can rename the files in dopus, and then go to lightroom, import, add one keyword to each file, and then rename the file with that keyword at the front.  there is for example no way to insert the keyword into the middle of the filename.  if i make a mistake and use the wrong gloss, i have to correct it in dopus.  if i accidentally rename twice so that i get sheepsheepfilename, no simple way to remove all the duplicate keywords - again have to go to dopus.  in other words i can't tell lightroom please remove all of the material before the version number.    sometimes i have to change the language id.  i can't tell lightroom please change all occurences of lxamr to lxrw1.  and so on.  

14 Messages

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294 Points

also, im not sure about your remark about the metadata copy field.  i am dealing with 15,000 to 20,000 videos (1000 for each language), and i need something quick.  the keywords i have can be reasonably easily added by typing the first few letters or checking the keyword in the keyword list (the keywords are more or less in sequence).  Is there any automatic way to add the keyword to the metadata also?

475 Messages

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10.5K Points

rachel, I don't understand your question entirely, but it's my belief that almost any keyword problem can be solved using a scripting language (for Macintosh, try AppleScript or Bash) and exiftool. However, if you are not comfortable developing scripts, you would have to find someone to do that for you.

I have an Applescript that I use on all my photos before I add them to Lightroom. The files are renamed according to certain conventions, and certain metadata applied to every file. While it is slow, and adds a step before I can look at my photos in Lightroom, it enforces a structure that I find helpful in the long run.

488 Messages

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12.3K Points

In your comments, I'm not sure what "gloss" means and in your example I assume "sheep" is the KW and the rest of the file name is your code for language, version, signer, date, etc.).  But it sounds like your goal is to wind up with 3 things.  1) a file name that has some text you type in, a version number you supply, and some or all of the originally sent file name.  2) Assign a unique KW to each Video, and 3) be able to see that KW in the grid.  

A couple of ideas.  you can create a file naming pattern preset that gets applied during import.  Part of the file name pattern can include custom text you supply when you use it - you could use this filed for your KW+language+Signer+etc. assuming that could all be one string in the filename - and a sequence number you supply when you use it - which could be your version number.  If you're importing only one video at a time, the sequence number is your version number.  If you import multiple video's at at time it is the starting number.   In the import dialog you can also type or paste in an actual KW on the same screen.  Or, after import, you could just alter the file name of each video by over typing in the file name field in the metadata panel.  At the same time you could cut/paste or type the KW into the Copy Name field which is right below the file name field.  

You may also want to look at the jfriedl "Metadata Wrangler" plug in.  I don't use it, but it may be of some help.

Dan


 

14 Messages

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294 Points

two kinds of batch rename - keywords and files.  keywords:  suppose i need to number the keywords temporarily.  i have to either individually drag them to higher level keywords or rename each one individually to have a number.  the example above of changing red to pink is an example of a one-time, not a batch rename.  what if i want to rename every keyword that has red inside it to pink?  or more realistically, i want to change every example of Smith to Jones for multiple individuals?
batch rename of files:  suppose  i add two keywords to a file name, they get separated by commas.  if i want to remove those commas, i have to close lightroom, go to dopus and delete the commas in the filename.  now i go back to lightroom and guess what ive lost all the keywords when i reimport the files.  this kind of behaviour doesnt create a lot of trust that the keywords will be permanent parts of the file.  same thing with entering a date that needs to be corrected or any element of a file name.  all that lightroom allows is additions to a filename.  there is no way to change string xxx to string yyy

5 Messages

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104 Points

I'd like to see a batch method to remove a single or multiple keywords from MULTIPLE photos at a time.  When I remove the keyword from one image, and try to sync, the keyword is NOT removed from the other photos selected.  It is tedious to open every photo and manually delete a keyword - Adobe, please, create a way to simply delete the keywords from ALL photos selected.  Thanks

488 Messages

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12.3K Points

Deb, this capability already exists.  Go to the grid view in the Library module and select the images you want remove the keyword from.  Then, in the right panel group, in the "Keyword List" panel navigate to the keyword you want to take off the images. If all the images selected actually have that KW there will be a check mark to the left of the KW name.  Either click that check mark or right click on the keyword name and select "remove keyword from selected photos",   That's it. 

5 Messages

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104 Points

Thanks so much Dan!  That worked - I needed to go to grid view rather than use the filmstrip!  I have been struggling with this for so long.... but now I've got it.  Deeply appreciate it!

27 Messages

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588 Points

4 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Ability to merge two or more keywords.

I know there are other threads on here that document extensive ideas around managing the keywords library.  And I thoroughly support them.  However the combined ideas represent a huge body of work.  In the meantime I (and many others on the forums) would like one very simple change:

  - The ability to merge multiple keywords 
The ugly workaround is to select the unwantedkeyword, display the images , select all, click and drag the wanted keywordonto the images, then delete the unwanted keyword.  This is a long-winded and error pronemethod.  I should be able to select the keywords, right click and choose 'Merge Keywords." (yeah, there would need to be some way to identify the keyword into which the others should be merged)

26 Messages

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1.2K Points

Paul, I agree 100%. Merging keywords at the moment is a real pain.

Champion

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220 Messages

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4.1K Points

Yes, merging would be great.... 

16 Messages

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382 Points

In general, Lightroom needs much better data management. Merging is critical, but there are many other deficits.

9 Messages

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326 Points

That would be very helpful!!!

9 Messages

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404 Points

The responses have been very interesting.  my needs were much simpler. I'd like Boolean searches. Plus, default "and" for a list of keywords, i.e. if i have a list k1,k2,...,kn, then, a search is formed for k1^k2^...^kn. This means order is irrelevant and, one doesn't need to know what filed the ki are in. Works extremely well.
I'd also like wild character searches and regular expressions.
The funny thing about all the searches i use, is that NONE of them behave intelligently! I taught file design and database at a uni for a few years, and, it seems none of this has made it into the modern real world!
My main concern with loosing LR on a disc is that I have some 20,000 images which have some kind of LR processing. I don't want to spend the rest of my life reprocessing what I have already done!
Not good!

26 Messages

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1.2K Points

Karl,
If I need to do those kinds of boolean searches - I use a smart collection.  If you haven't found it yet try holding down the ALT key when clicking "+" button when adding a rule while editing a smart collection.!  ;-)  It allows you to create some very complex rules.  If it's a one-off search I prefix the smart collection name with "tmp" so I know I can just delete it later on.

20,000 images.... I wish that was my concern.  237,000 images in my catalog.  

27 Messages

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588 Points

16,000 images here.  I use Daminion to manage it.

Champion

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5.4K Messages

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95.8K Points

3 years ago

Deb Snelson asked, "I'd like to see a batch method to remove a single or multiple keywords from MULTIPLE photos at a time."

There are two ways to do that.  First, select all the photos from which you want to remove the keywords. Then look at the Keyword List panel on the right side of Library:



A check indicates the keyword has been applied to all the selected photos, while a "-" indicates it's been applied to some but not all of the photos.  To remove the keyword from all the selected photos, click the check once or the hyphen twice, until it's blank.

Alternatively, look at the Keywording panel just above:



This shows all the keywords applied to the selected photos. An asterisk indicates the keyword has been applied to some but not all of the photos.  To remove the keyword from all the selected photos, just select it with the mouse (and any trailing asterisk) and hit the delete / backspace key.

5 Messages

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104 Points

Thank you John.  I have tried the second method, but the keyword stays attached to all images except the one I have highlighted "the most".  All the other images that are secondarily selected still retain the keyword.  As for the keyword list panel, I'm not sure I tried it after selecting all the photos I want to delete the keyword, so I will certainly try that - thanks!

Champion

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5.4K Messages

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95.8K Points

Make sure the menu command Metadata > Show Metadata For Target Photo Only is unchecked.   When it is unchecked, deleting a keyword from the Keywording panel will remove it from all selected photos; when it is checked, the keyword will be removed from the most-selected photo only.

5 Messages

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104 Points

Thank you John, I am trying it right now, after making sure that "Show Metadata for Target Photo Only" is unchecked, and unfortunately it is only removing the keyword for the most-selected photo.  I've struggled with this for such a long time....  

Champion

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5.9K Messages

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104K Points

Triple check that you're using Grid view on the primary monitor. It won't work if it's Grid view on the secondary window or any other view mode.

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

475 Messages

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10.5K Points

"Champion" my ass, Victoria. You are a "Lightroom whisperer!" It's amazing the arcana that you know about this program. (No comment on why Lightroom has so many exceptions and inconsistencies!)

May I take this as an opportunity to plug your books? Anyone who is coming to this site for help could probably usefully start with a good couple of hours first reading them.

https://www.lightroomqueen.com

Champion

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5.9K Messages

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104K Points

LOL Thanks Alan. It's easy when you know how. ;-)

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

5 Messages

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104 Points

Thanks Victoria!  Good to know!

27 Messages

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588 Points

Does that just remove the keyword from the LR database or does remove it from the image's metadata too?

26 Messages

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1.2K Points

Paul, to ensure that the keyword is removed from the image as well, you need to either hit "CTL-S" (win) "CMD-S" (Mac, I think) to force an update to the the image's XMP.  Alternatively, you should have "automatically write XMP" set in the catalog settings, which will get LR to write the XMP.... well... automatically, without you having to press CTRL-S.

26 Messages

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1.2K Points

3 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Please can we have Improved Keywording Support - we've been asking for TEN YEARS.....

I know this has been raised many times before, but Lightroom needs better keywording support.  As a professional photographer here's what we need.  There's TEN of them - one for each year we have been waiting for improvements.

  1. We need an easy way to combe/merge keywords - yes it is possible at the moment but it is convoluted. 
  2. We need to be able to cut and paste keywords in the keyword list hierarchy, dragging them around doesn't really work when you have 10,000+ keywords in your list (as I have)
  3. For stock photographers, we need the ability to change the order of the keywords to put the most relevant keywords first on export.
  4. We need the ability to prevent 'third party' images or images which haven't been exported with keywords in a hierarchy from creating new keywords in the wrong places on import.
  5. We need the ability to filter on synonyms as well as master keywords.  Many a time, I have needlessly created a new keyword because I had forgotten the one I wanted was a synonym for a different keyword
  6. Autocomplete should autocomplete on synonyms and then replace with the keyword it is a synonym for.  Again we can't always remember which is the 'master' and which is the synonym.
  7. We need to be able to filter for keywords with spaces in the name if I want to filter for "Tower Bridge" I want to see just the "Tower Bridge" keyword not the keyword for every bridge and every tower that I have created.
  8. Keyword sets should not be limited to 9 keywords each.  It makes no sense. Allowing those sets to be of variable length would make a huge improvement to speed in which we can keyword. 
  9. We need the ability to work in a larger panel with larger fonts.  Managing keywords and metadata in a small side panel with tiny fonts is difficult on the eyes.  Many of us actually spend more time doing keywording and metadata than we do developing our images.
  10. We need to be able to do keywording in on our mobile devices AND have it sync back to LR Classic.  It's just crazy that it's now available there but doesn't sync.  We should have our LR keyword list available to us on the mobile devices.  Some of us have spent years building up custom taxonomies to support our business.

Getting any one of these fixed would make a real difference to professional photographers round the world.  LR is 10 years old - some of us, myself included, were raising many of these keywording issues when we were beta testing LR version 1 and TEN YEARS later there has been no improvement.

I had really hoped that we could have seen at least some progress by this stage.  I am truely disappointed in Adobe on this one.

1 Message

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72 Points

Hear, hear!!

27 Messages

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588 Points

I gave up waiting and over a year ago I switched to Daminion for my Digital Asset Management and I haven't looked back.  I never use LR now.  Anything I can't do in Daminion I do in Photoshop Elements.  Adobe have done sweet f*** all in 10 years despite repeated request - the idea that they are going to listen now is frankly delusional. You can download a free copy of Daminion here and the paid for consumer versions here

Daminion's handling of keywords is superb, although they don't have mobile apps.  I use Daminion for metadata management and Synology Photo Station for photo display (Synology does have mobile apps.

1 Message

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84 Points

I fully support all requests regarding optimizing keywording and keyword-management. There are a lot of usefull and smart requests and suggestions. Ian M Butterfield last one is very good.
A DAM is for me as an enthusiastic amateur with only 25000 pics nevertheless essential. A lot of (good) competitors are lacking of a good DAM or are to expensive. Or if they have a good DAM are lacking of other features or a convenient handling compared to LR.
I always come back to LR because I CAN FIND AND ORGANIZE MY IMAGES - still there is potential for improvement.

26 Messages

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1.2K Points

I really didn't want this post buried 3 pages into a 7-year-old topic.  So not particularly happy that my thread has been merged into here.

In another attempt to get Adobe's eyes on this issue, I've converted my post into a blog post and open letter to Adobe - you can find it here:  https://www.ians-studio.co.uk/2017/10/an-open-letter-to-adobe-lightroom-keywording-ten-years-of-negl...

I'm trying to get as many people as possible to tweet or share the link on social media to try to get Adobe to pay attention.  If anyone feels they can share it or tweet it - please do so and tag Adobe, or Lightroom or any of the Lightroom Influencers/evangelists that you know.  Let's make some noise.... I'm not giving up on keywording in LR without a fight!

9 Messages

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326 Points

3 years ago

I have an extensive keyword list and I'm worried that Adobe may be putting its hopes in the Artificial Intelligence (AI) system they are developing for the new Lightroom CC. While I think that will be a helpful tool for finding many of our photos an AI system will never be able to apply all the very specific keywords that I need to track all of my photos. Will the AI be able to keyword the specific name of a little visited country bridge, will it be able to identify a particular trail in the forest, will it know that this photo is of my cousin or that this picture is a good metaphor for confusion?

AI can identify a lot of things, but it will always have limitations and so I really hope that Adobe will commit to improving the keywording system in LR Classic while also developing their AI cloud keyword solution.

One of my biggest gripes about the LR Classic keywording, apart from the overall clumsiness of applying specific keywords to each image, is the way that they get messed up, or rather orphans appear when you edit a photo in another application like PS and then bring it back into LR. In the next few weeks, I need to commit quite a bit of time to try and do my yearly cleanup of the LR Classic keywords. I'm not looking forward to it.  

Please give keywords some further attention Adobe! There are many of us here who rely on them! 

26 Messages

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1.2K Points

Erik,

I agree with you, as a stock photographer who has a particular interest in photographing ancient sites, when the AI system can correctly identify which Egyptian Pharoah is depicted in the statues I have photographed and tag them with the all the different spellings of the names and correct dynasty they belong to, then and only then will I start to take it seriously.  Until that time we NEED the tools to do it ourselves.  ARE YOU LISTENING ADOBE??

Ian.

7 Messages

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216 Points

I'll also second the ideas presented by Ian M Butterfield and Erik Stensland in their posts. Although I'm happy to see the few changes made in the Develop module this time around, I am more than disappointed that there were no major changes to the Library module.

The new "Adobe Sensei" sounded interesting until I read that the keywords would not sync with a Classic catalog. Huh!!?? How helpful is that? Sorry, Adobe, but my catalog is never going to live in your cloud!

When I think of the time I have invested in LR over the years it makes me kind of sick to think about looking for a new software tool, but that's what I'll be doing.

26 Messages

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1.2K Points

3 years ago

Just for the record, Adobe - my thread (https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/please-can-we-have-improved-keywording-suppor...) that was merged into this one is getting "upvotes" (it has gone up to 6 votes in the time this thread went up by 3).  Therefore votes from people who want improvements to keywording are not being reflected in the count on this thread... which I thought was the reason for merging - to combine the votes.   

So not only have you hidden my suggestions on page 3 of a 7-year-old thread (the digital equivalent of filing it “in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.” - to quote Douglas Adams). but the votes people are giving the suggestion are not being counted.

If anyone is interested I've been blogging about this and my post here has become the basis of an open letter to Adobe.  https://www.ians-studio.co.uk/2017/10/an-open-letter-to-adobe-lightroom-keywording-ten-years-of-negl...

10 Messages

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452 Points

3 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom Classic: Lightroom CC: Need to manually manage keywords.

The new Lightroom CC and Lightroom Mobile app for Android are missing support for manual keywording.  Right now the search box produces a never-ending "Black Hole" error because Lightroom CC isn't smart enough to come up with any intelligent keywords for my images.

Also, keyword management needs to be completely revamped in Lightroom Classic CC.  Please see https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/better_keyword_management for an extended SEVEN YEAR discussion of how this should be improved.

Both Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC need to have a robust keyword management module that allows sorting, replacing, merging, deleting, stacking, and layering of keywords and bidirectional synonyms.  We need to be able to sync keywords across catalogs as desired, including into the cloud (or not at our choice).

4 Messages

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132 Points

3 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Ability to merge Keywords in LR future?.

So, eight years later I'm searching yet again for a better way to merge keywords and came across my post from 2010. https://forums.adobe.com/message/10423855#10423855 Still no good way to merge them that I can find, just one at a time selecting, adding keywords to the images of the same key and combining them in a terribly slow and laborious way only to have them all duplicated again the next time I import images from a keywording service. Wow, Aperture was capable of this in 2006 but Lightroom still can't do it in 2018. I suppose it's safe to assume the LR will never be able to do this and keywording will remain a huge spaghetti bowl.

To whom replied that didn't port over to this thread: Yes, my comparison to Aperture was unjust, outside of that one, single feature LR pretty much beat it in every other aspect. To fix the above once and for all I'm abandoning the hierarchy and will just have a super long list of words.

41 Messages

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708 Points

Same here, 6 year old comments on this threat.  Funny that on Twitter @adobesupport says they really look here and take things into consideration, so I'm guess this just is never going to happen, which will make it really hard for me to clean up keywords without spending a TON of time on it.

I'll also add to the original idea that some way to deal with a keyword that's a person or not, and how to even tell in the current keyword editor without double clicking on each one.

Champion

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"and how to even tell in the current keyword editor without double clicking on each one."

There's a hidden feature -- click here in the Keyword List panel:



then select People to filter by just those keywords marked as Person keywords:



Are there other things you want to do with Person keywords?

41 Messages

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708 Points

Ah, didn't know that.

I guess in terms of people vs not-people, I have a bunch of photos tagged with "John Doe" from before LR had people keywords, and when looking at the main list I see 2 different occurrences of John Doe in the keyword list, but I can't put them at the same level.  IE:

People -> Friends -> John Doe (general tag)
People -> John Doe (people tag)

I don't seem to be able to put them both at the same level (ie: under friends), and even if I could when looking at the full list I'd just see two John Doe keywords and I don't know which to drag the images into (it seems odd to drag a photo into a people keyword as you still need to go in and tag them.
Looking at my own library I see:
Names -> Friends -> John Doe
John Doe
Johnn Doe
(I typo'd the name at some point)
For me, trying to fix a decade of bad keywording practices, there doesn't seem to be a quick way to see which of those three is a tag and which is a person, no way to put them all on the same level (under friends) and no way to rename the typo'd one or merge them together.
I know there *are* ways to do this, but a proper pop-out editor would make this *much* easier to deal with. 

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"a proper pop-out editor would make this *much* easier to deal with"

Very much agreed.  Even an updated Metadata > Export Keywords command that included all the attributes of a keyword would be a big help, as would trivial enhancements to the plugin API to allow plugins to solve these issues:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/sdk_small_enhancement_to_lrkeyword_to_relieve...

But as you've observed, Adobe clearly doesn't think better keywording deserves any effort at all.

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" know there *are* ways to do this"

If you want tips on these things, just let us know.

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708 Points

Sure, if there are work arounds that'd be awesome. 

In terms of  knowing there are ways to do this, for example to merge person/normal tags, I assume I can just add the person keyword to the ones with a normal tag and then remove the normal tag, but tagging all the photos with a face can be a pain in the ass (especially if you're trying to tag an entire shoot where faces might not be visible, and having to go and tag the back of a head or something).  Or I guess just naming the person tag as "John Doe (person)"...

Anyway, help appreciated :)

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As I think you've learned, to merge keyword A into keyword B:

1. In the Keyword List panel hover the mouse over keyword A and then click the arrow on the right that appears.  That will filter all photos assigned A.

2. Select all those photos and drag keyword B onto one of them, to assign B to all of them.

3. Delete keyword A.

If you want to merge a non-person keyword with a person keyword, make sure you merge into the person keyword, otherwise you'll lose all the face tagging of the person keyword.  

There's no good way to merge two person keywords and retain the face tagging of the source (A) keyword, though.  The photos will get keyword B, but the face tagging of keyword A will be lost.

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If I could expand on John's comment.....In John's step 1, you will only see images that are not buried in collapsed stacks so step 2 may leave some images still with KW A and not KW B.  There are two solutions to this wrinkle.

a)  Expand all stacks in your entire catalog before you do step 1.  (Could be quite time consuming)

b)  Create a smart collection with a name something like "all photos".  The only rule for the smart collection is Rating >= 0 stars which is every image there is  Now, after you do John's step 1 (which changes the source to the All Photographs in the Catalog panel), Close the lock on the filter bar (lock icon at right end of filter bar), and then click on the smart collection you just created.  This will put all images with KW A in the grid no mater stack position.

Dan

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708 Points

I think I get what you're saying, I'll play with that tonight.  I still maintain that letting the user have both a John Doe (non-person) and a John Doe (person) keyword would be nice for some use cases, and a visual differentiation in the keyword list (and the entry box as well) would be a nice addition.
But I appreciate the tips, I'll have a go with that to play around tonight when I'm home.

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"letting the user have both a John Doe (non-person) and a John Doe (person) keyword would be nice"

You can have two John Doe keywords with different containing keywords in the keyword hierarchy. Is there something about the current LR behavior that's making that difficult for your workflow?

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"a visual differentiation in the keyword list (and the entry box as well) would be a nice addition."

I agree.

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a year ago

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a year ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom (Feature Request) Keyword Panel and Editing Update.

Hello,
I love Lightroom but it really needs a keyword panel/editor makeover. Photo Mechanic has a really nice keyword editor layout with columns where you can quickly and easily create, cut, paste, organize keywords and much more.
Can Adobe please do something like that but maybe cooler, since you're Adobe?

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Ever hopeful...

7 Messages

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216 Points

I'm currently checking out alternatives, as painful as it may be...

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102 Points

My problem is that I used Lightroom for many years before discovering the keyword hierarchy features, and I suspect that's not a unique experience. Now that I know how much easier I could have made things if I had known how it worked from the beginning, I'm finding it very unwieldy trying to go back and organize my existing, lengthy flat list into a useful hierarchy. It's not the comprehensive fix that I or a lot of others want, but one simple (I think) addition would be the ability within the Edit Keyword Tag dialog to specify a containing keyword from the existing list. This would eliminate a lot of drag-and-dropping when the two keywords are not close together alphabetically. 

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I agree that keyword management could be much better. But a tip for reorganizing large keyword lists: In the Keyword List panel's Filter Keywords box, type the keyword you want to drag to and the keyword you want drag:



In this example, only keywords containing the string "people" or the string "richard" will be displayed. Now it's easy to drag "Richard III" to "People" without waiting for the panel to scroll painfully slowly.

3 Messages

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102 Points

That's one trick I've been relying on, but I do mainly travel & landscape and it's not quite as effective when you're dealing with things like place names which often contain multiple common words. Another thing I'll do is temporarily modify one tag with an extra word so it sorts near the other one, then remove it again once the move is done.