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44 Messages

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3.1K Points

Thu, Oct 19, 2017 7:11 AM

164

Lightroom Classic : Ability to sync Keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me).
Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app. 
Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

Responses

2 Messages

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192 Points

8 months ago

Very disappointing. Adobe please - Official reply states:
(1) A hierarchical schema is not compatible for various workflow reasons with a flat schema - ergo there is no syncing of keywords between the two.  
(2) The two products are designed for different audiences and workflows.

I know that it is tiresome to get the "I'm a software engineer myself, how hard can it be" over and over again, but maybe it would make you think twice? So, flattening the hierarchy when syncing, or only syncing a specific level, would be a somewhat acceptable limitation, near or long term. Not wanting to do it is just a decision. Then say it like it is.

Worst problem is the second part of the answer, about the product being for different audiences and workflows. Wake up and listen to your users - Lightroom CC/Mobile has been adopted as a long awaited valuable addition to the professional workflow of your LIghtroom Classic users, making it possible to work when not on the main system, and to delegate tasks like rating and adjustments. For many, what you have already now solves year-long problems of not being able to share catalogues or use network drives. Now it even works when syncing only the previews rather than the full images! It is genious - Adobe, you struck gold here for the workflow of professionals, and CaptureOne or anything else does not have anything like this yet. This is your value-prop, and you are alone on the market. Unless your only plan with Lightroom is to be freeware for instagram posting, please stop claiming that one Lightroom has nothing to do with the other Lightroom, and make your program managers understand that your users do not share the view of them being different workflows. You are throwing away your advantage.

I wonder if this will be read.

  

26 Messages

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786 Points

Thanks for making a compelling argument. It’s difficult to come up with another way to ask for these features without coming across as just complaining. You articulated this great. Hopefully someone is listening!. Where did you see Adobe reply that you quoted?

2 Messages

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192 Points

Thank you. The quote is from one of two answers to this thread, marked as official answers. The numbering is mine, though.

Adobe Administrator

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8.2K Messages

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118K Points

All threads are read. 

Please see the official response at the top of the thread. If anything were to change that is where any update would appear. That official response also contains the link to the feature request (Add Keyword Hierarchy to Lightroom Ecosystem). This would be an antecedent to this feature request. 

Please continue to vote using the [Vote] button at the top of this (and the other ) page so that relative customer feedback continues to feed to our internal systems informing product management.
 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

2 Messages

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152 Points

Rikk Thank you for replying.
I voted a while ago....
Actually I just don't understand how you can say the 2 products are for different audiences.
If so, why do you propose and put forward a subscription with both ?
The only reason why your cloud subsciption with mobile and desktop lightrooms is interesting (to me?) is exactly because we have a workflow, starting mobile (on the IPAD Pro for me) while on the move for long periods (weeks) downloading images, starting to edit, keywords, ... and continuing back home on the desktop (and the CC desktop version doesn't have what is needed such as print...)...
And later going back and forth between mobile and desktop is a huge productivity gain (keywords, color tags, editing on the ipad or iphone while commuting for instance...)... otherwise what's the point os syncing...
I can't understand how this is not obvious to your Lightroom product management team...
Not being able to fully use my expensive subsciption (missing keyword, persons....) is making me doubt I will continue it and look forward for your competition to propose it.

26 Messages

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786 Points

Here is a plug-in for Lightroom Classic that I find invaluable. It syncs smart collections to mirrored normal collections. Using this i make smart collections with important keywords (sometimes limiting to say 3 stars) then I sync those collections to mobile. It’s a bit of setup and of course wouldn’t be feasible for too many keywords but works well for me. For example I made a folder called “3 star vacation”. This is one way to benefit from your LR Classic’s keywords in mobile.

http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-good...

474 Messages

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12.2K Points

I don't see how this relates to this thread?  Are you claiming that by syncing a dumb collection, that has cloud sync turned on, with the contents of a smart collection that somehow that syncs keyword changes to/from the cloud?   Unless the plugin is doing something under the covers wtih smart previews I don't see how that could happen.

26 Messages

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786 Points

Hi Dan, perhaps it doesn’t relate. I’m not claiming any like you described.

It’s a work around that I use. In Lightroom Classic I use keywords to find photos quick. In Lightroom Mobile I’m frustrated because I cannot search for photos tagged with keywords from Classic. Keyword based smart albums are now indirectly accessible on my Lightroom Mobile. If I’m on the go and want to show a picture of my dog I just bring up the “Dogs” album that is automatically synced from the keyword “Dogs”.

I thought since other people on this thread are suffering from missing keyword sync they might find value in my work around. In that way I think it related to the thread.

474 Messages

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12.2K Points

Chris,

Aha,  Now I understand what you're doing.  You are using a Collection as a surrogate for a keyword so that albums in Cloudy relate to keywords in Classic.  Okay, that makes sense assuming the number of keywords that need such treatment are reasonable.

2 Messages

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280 Points

I would just add to LR people that I do not care about the hierarchical way to organise keyword. If tomorrow I have a pop up asking me if I want to 1. flatten my keyword forever in my classic collection in order to use sync in cc or 2. Keep hierarchical
I would click 1. Immediately.

945 Messages

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16K Points

Agreed! Me too ;-)

26 Messages

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786 Points

I use the hierarchy extensively but agree given the choice of pressing that imagined button I’d be disappointed but I’d agree to it too.

175 Messages

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3.7K Points

I'm sad customers do not understand they are totally captive using cloud and or subscription model. Is is so easy to understand. Maybe mire difficult tp admit. It is  obvious Adobe just limits functionality and spread some minor update all month long too justify you have to pay a subscription. There is plethora of lobby, including the Queen and other youtubers devoted to Adobe, that's probably why things are not more easy to understand. So this sync will never be implemented , believe me. 

Go for C1, succeed your cloud by yourself 

945 Messages

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16K Points

I agree on the captivity part as well as in the spread of minor updates to justify the price.
I find, however, to see much less LR related content on YouTube than before « cloudy ». It’s maybe just a feeling, but if true, I wonder why it would be.

175 Messages

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3.7K Points

You are right. Im fact there is less and less YouTube content. People are switching. Thats good for us. C1 seems the good alternative. With no cloud, for sure.

Go for C1, succeed your cloud by yourself 

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

Can you please take your off topic discussion elsewhere? This is about realising the benefits of the cloud integration!

175 Messages

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3.7K Points

Do not forget it is a 2 years old topic. Just a shame.
Do not forget the cloud integration is actually far from perfect. A good paid beta testing missing what people really wants.
So it is not an off topic. 
it is a reality. Sorry mate.

Go for C1, succeed your cloud by yourself 

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

And yet you suggest looking into competition that does no cloud integration whatsoever. You are a hypocrite at best. And don’t use the colloquial term “mate” addressing me! You don’t know me! And your ramblings are off topic, because this thread is about making the cloud integration better while you don’t believe there will be. So be it, keep your negativity to yourself it’s not helping!

175 Messages

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3.7K Points

?? I do not understand you. At least competitor does not claim to offer cloud, si I’m not hypocrite but realistic. For sure I don’t know you. You don’t know me either :)
Sorry this topic is about Sync Keywords between the 2 LR. So about sync : A simple thing Adobe does not offer for segmentation reason. So simple.  I’m sorry for you, it is good sometimes somebody comes and explains some obvious facts. Regards. PS : 
sorry if I use a colloquial term. English is not my mother tongue. Chill...

Go for C1, succeed your cloud by yourself 

2 Messages

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112 Points

8 months ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Keywording is a lot of work for losing it on the cloud !.

Seems incredible that keywords sync is not posible between LR platforms... Hardly to believe that it`s not technically posible when you can even sync develop settings... Why is that?


Keywords sync between LR platforms is a must !


Please, Adobe, fix this !

4 Messages

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154 Points

8 months ago

Please, please, please fix this!

4 Messages

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146 Points

7 months ago

I do struggle with the attempt to be able to sort, edit, keyword all my pictures on more than one Laptop. I like Lightroom Classic, especially since the speed dramatically increased.

Now I thought, it would be a good option to have the "main" editing and stuff on my laptop and sync with my second laptop and even my smartphone using the mobile versions. Like all the others, I struggled with keywords the most.

I do not understand why keyword syncing is not possible. And if so, why is it not possible to collaborate on two Laptops with Lightroom classic on one catalog?

In my opinion, Adobe's mentality is ten or twenty years behind the state-of-the-art with regards to cloud functions, syncing and customer care.

Can someone recommend a lightroom alternative, which can be used synchronously on two laptops? I could store the catalog on a performant network drive. Ideally, the lightroom catalog should be imported into the new software. Ideally, the new software has no such strong vendor lock-in like Adobe.

So, can someone recommend an alternative?

1 Message

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54 Points

The closest I've seen is Mylio.  But, in order to get your metadata to sync over, it requires you to save it to the file.  https://support.mylio.com/from-lightroom/

29 Messages

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564 Points

The closest I've seen is Mylio.  But, in order to get your metadata to sync over, it requires you to save it to the file.  https://support.mylio.com/from-lightroom/

4 Messages

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154 Points

6 months ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Why don't keywords replicate properly between classic and mobile?..

Why don't keywords replicate properly between classic and mobile? If I change or add keywords after images have been synced the alterations don't replicate.

41 Messages

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708 Points

Have a look at the answers at the beginning of this thread, Adobe reps explain why it's set up like this.

10 Messages

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318 Points

The fact that there is an answer from Adobe doesn't change the fact that it is a complete pain for people who want to use both products!  

41 Messages

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708 Points

Oh I 100% agree!  Just that there seem to be a lot of people asking "can I do this" or "why doesn't it work" and ignoring the answer that says exactly why.

Hopefully Adobe will see this thread and realize this is something people want, but based on the answers they've given, I would say that there's little chance of this, they seem to have made their minds up about it.

474 Messages

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12.2K Points

the Adobe response is just a "we don't want to expend resources on this as we don't think it will make us any money, so just tell people that it can't be done due to different structures" response. 

 I have written the logic of how it could be done which is in this thread someplace.  Also, it seems it's not a problem for them with the first sync, but that was probably just an accident where the keywords happened to be in the Smart Preview at the time.  

2 Messages

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192 Points

5 months ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Keywords do not sync between Lightroom Classic and the cloud.

When is going to be this possible? I think it would be very usefull for everyone

6 Messages

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428 Points

5 months ago

This decision by Adobe is baffling. I tried the keyword feature on CC and it was a nightmare. I can't see the AI keywords? I can't search even my own keywords if I don't have an internet connection? I get that there are two audiences - "classic" vs "mobile". But why wouldn't "classic" users want cloud capability? I've read many people say "because Adobe wants more money; driving everyone to CC because it's cloud based". But they're already getting my money! They won't get more by getting me to switch to CC. I pay monthly for classic. I'm willing to pay more monthly for cloud storage. But instead they are trying for artificially tie "cloud" with "dumbed down mobile". There is surely an audience for that, but they are killing the rest of us. I was literally about to pay for 1Tb of cloud storage with them (more money for them!), but now that I fully understand their keyword "strategy", I'm not. It's really unclear is this choice is creating more revenue for them. Sigh. Off to look for alternatives...

474 Messages

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12.2K Points

5 months ago

Ever feel like you are whistling in the wind? 

This thread, if anything, should indicate to Adobe that this is a problem that deserves some sort of a response other than the "it can't be done" ones they've provided so far and to which several people (including myself) have offered viable ways to do it.  These range from 'add hierarchical KW's to Cloud based system" to a way to assure a non conflict sync between the hierarchical Classic and the flat CC worlds. 

But all we hear from Adobe is silence, and the less we hear the higher our blood pressure goes, the higher our frustration level rises, and the angrier we get.   

I don't know how long a problem thread like this needs to get or how many "Likes" on a thread it takes to get this off the dime, but apparently we're not there yet.  At some point, some high level person at Adobe made a strategic decision that prevents the keyword sycing from seeing the light of day.  I don't know what that decision was.  Maybe it is that LR Cloud based is intended to replace Classic at some point.  Maybe it is that LR Cloud was always intended to be a "Lightroom Light" or "dumbed down" sort of application aimed at a different audience than Classic.  It is hard to know.  However it is not hard to observe that so far Adobe apparently has not seen fit to re-evaluate that strategy.  

When I was a manager in computer application development we had a word for this.  We called it "Married to an idea".  It happens when someone (usually a high level person) sells an idea which sounds good at the time and in one way or another bets their credibility (or perhaps their career with that company) on that idea.  Then when it turns out that  things unfold differently than originally anticipated they won't let go of that original idea and just cling to it like gold even though it is now no longer a wise strategy.  They just don't want to "look bad" or "lose face" so they just keep going and ignoring all evidence that what had been a good idea at one time is now the opposite.  Can I prove any of this?  No.  Have I seen it dozens of times?  Yes.  Does the evidence fit this scenario?  Yes. 
Am I optimistic that this will change?  No.  Am I hopeful that it will change?  Yes.

OK,  I'll climb down off my soap box now and go back to my corner.. 


26 Messages

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786 Points

I hear you on the silence and blood pressure. I'm starting to get deja vu. All the Aperture users were dying to hear from Apple and what the future of their favourite software would be. I held out till the end having countless hours invested in my data. Eventually they released the upgrade path: Photos - a dumbed down consumer cloud program. I felt duped - a dummy for not choosing Lightroom in the first place. So I migrated to Lightroom and became an avid fan but still bitter from loosing all my edits and data unique to Aperture. Here I am again hanging on to older software waiting to hear about it's future and dissatisfied with the path presented. What's frustrating is it's so close - all I'm asking for is data parity and I'll migrate! Failing that I'll continue to use Classic and beg for better syncing with the cloud ecosystem.

Don't get me wrong Adobe doesn't appear to be abandoning it pro users to the degree Apple did but I still feel hopeless.

7 Messages

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454 Points

Adding my voice to the chorus...

I spent at least 100 hours of my life transitioning my photo library from Aperture to Lightroom, confident that that was the right path forward.

I maintained all the metadata because I rely on it to easily find any image on mobile devices. The simplest (and should be most basic!) example is searching by keywords on my phone. My friends, family, coworkers, and clients have always appreciated my ability to almost instantly pull up any photo in the middle of casual conversation. That's a very valuable tool and something countless of us have spent untold hours making possible.

Ironically, my workflow now involves exporting finished photos *from* Lightroom *to* Apple Photos, because Apple's Photos app handles searching by the keywords quite well. This is crazy and should not be so difficult! It's a feature even most casual users would enjoy.

So I feel your pain but hopefully it's not hopelessness forever... if Adobe were to implement some basic functionality with their cloud service, there would be no further conversation about it.

Just sync the damn keywords and it will bring joy to everyone who gets to see the fruits of our labor!

7 Messages

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454 Points

5 months ago

This issue is now three years old and still with users actively sharing their frustrations. It's a basic functionality that's keeping many of us from using CC. A small technical hurdle but clearly held up somewhere in management. Adobe, we need this. Let the programmers make it happen and we will all happily continue supporting your products. Meantime we are coming up with convoluted solutions of our own that cost us a ridiculous number of hours and force us to break out of your cloud.

6 Messages

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136 Points

4 months ago

I can't believe Adobe did not think about that. This is very annoying. Lightroom CC is very useful, but without keyword synchronization, and without colors added to the photos, it's a nightmare when I am looking for a photo from my phone, when I don't have access to Lightroom classic.

1 Message

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106 Points

4 months ago

Just adding my voice to the chorus of complaints. The lack of keyword sync is closing in on deal-breaker status for me. I guess Adobe is feeling confident LR is still the best right now, but ignoring straight-forward feature requests from a crowd of paying customers seems like a bad business plan to me.

I just can't comprehend why they wouldn't implement the sync, I can't imagine what other features it would conflict with.

4 Messages

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154 Points

4 months ago

I for one am starting to look into other photo management software such as Capture One.  I believe that if enough of us starting to consider alternatives and started migrating our images over, then would Adobe start to listen.  Currently they do not feel there is any incentive to do so nor really care to.  This is evident in the manner in which they are silent on the topic and all the responses we are seeing are from other disgruntled users.  Food For Thought.

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

That doesn't help you much because on all of the alternatives you lose the very functionality completely that you want Adobe to improve (it is there to begin with)... The DAM functionality in all alternatives is miles behind Adobe - thus therein lies the problem, until a serious competitor with cloud integration shows up there is no immediate incentive to improve.

6 Messages

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428 Points

4 months ago

Just pulled the trigger - Adobe is no longer getting my monthly subscription. That lack of $9.99 monthly revenue will surely bring them to their knees! Sigh, well, I can dream. Anyway, I've moved on to ON1 RAW with the 360 cloud service. The desktop software is quite nice (I'm not missing anything from Lightroom yet), but the mobile software (which JUST launched) I'll charitably call "a work in progress". You can see all of your synced photos which sync with a smaller, compressed version. The smaller files plus a minimum storage of 200Gb means I was able to comfortably sync all my photos. But that's the end of the good news for the mobile app - you can't add tags (!) and the albums (ON1's version of collections) can't be nested (as they can in the desktop software). The GOOD news as the company is clearly very active in rolling out improvements. I decided to give them my money to continue encouraging those improvements since Adobe clearly has no intention of doing so.

945 Messages

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16K Points

That is, sadly, exactly what needs to happen. I’ll probably to the same when my subscription comes to an end. I’m afraid it won’t change a thing as the market of smartphone users is probably still growing, but still.
Thanks for the feedback, I’m sure many people are interested in switching experiences.
Cheers!

474 Messages

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12.2K Points

Keep us posted as On1 moves ahead. 

However, if your purpose of moving to On1 was that keywords don't sync between Adobe's desktop and cloud apps, and On1 doesn't allow you to add tags (which I assume are keywords) at all, I'm not sure what you've gained?

6 Messages

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428 Points

You are 100% correct. The lack of keywords means nothing has been solved for me. Yet. The mobile app is literally a couple of weeks old. What I’m banking on is future improvements. I could hope for the same from Lightroom, but they’ve had plenty of time to do that and have made their intentions pretty clear - no sort of merger between Classic and Cloud. Also, just to be clear, ON 360 supports tags and everything else. If you’re using two computers to look at synced files the experience is identical on both computers. It’s just the mobile app that can’t see or edit tags. I’m really hoping (and expecting) that will change in the coming months. 

(And, yes, they're actually called "keywords" in ON1. I guess I interchange those terms without noticing.)

993 Messages

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16.7K Points

19 days ago

I've stayed out of this because I have zero use for the online ecosystem.

However, its disingenuous to claim that hierarchical keywords cannot be maintained by Lightroom CC et al.

Keywords are plain text and are written into the file as "parent" + separator + "child." In other words, "Bird|Sparrow" would be a hierarchical keyword in the file.

ALL of the interpretation is done on the client side. So the photo viewing app reads the metadata and determines that "|" is a separator.

The easiest route would be preserve the hierarchy as it is written in the file and let each app interpret it. Lightroom CC uses a flat structure where "Bird|Sparrow" is the keyword and either ignores "Bird" or shows it. Lightroom Classic interprets it as hierarchical.

Adobe already deals with this problem in Bridge, which can use either flat or hierarchical keywords.

https://helpx.adobe.com/bridge/kb/nested-hierarchal-keywording-bridge.html

945 Messages

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16K Points

This, again, proves it’s not a technical decision but rather one to piss off customers.

41 Messages

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708 Points

@lumigraphics I do agree with you (and @antoine_hlmn) it's just them not doing it, but I do suspect that the keywords in online and CC aren't done the same as with CC or other apps that use whatever the keywording standard is.

 

I'd guess that the keywords are stored separately from the images as part of the image library in some other format that's possibly more appropriate for an "online only" world as well as dynamic keywords. 

 

That said, regardless of if they're stored "normally" or not, there's no reason (other than not wanting to put the effort into it) they can't add keyword syncing as part of the CC <-> Classic sync.

 

One thing though - to do this they'd have to change the keywording in CC and mobile to match the heirarchy set up and features in classic.  In CC you have a flat list of keywords, plus whatever hidden keywords that are used for their AI searching (possibly - no idea how they do that part of it).  In Classic you have keywords that contain other keywords as synonyms, a keyword hierarchy, keywords that are "people" keywords or not, keywords from the hierarchy that export with the image or not, etc.

 

To match this up you'd have to duplicate that entire set up and functionality inside CC and LR Mobile and web.  Not impossible of course, but a fair chunk of work, and my guess is that it would also go against the "simplicity" that they seem to want for the CC ecosystem, which could be a reason they're choosing not to do it.

 

An alternative would be to do some sort of mangling of the keywords (flatten the entire hierarchy when going from Classic -> CC, and then sync the flattened keywords back to Classic) and as someone with some fairly in depth keywords, I sure as hell don't want that.

 

Another alternative would be to display all the keywords as just a list when it syncs to CC (ie: go from people -> clients -> weddings -> Bob Jones, Events -> Wedding, Places -> Weddings -> Blah Golf Course which would just turn into "Bob Jones, Wedding, Blah Golf Course"), and then I guess any additional keywords get added back as a root keywords (so you tag "Mary Jones" and that goes into just a single keywords in Classic).  But what if you delete "Bob Jones".  When it syncs back to Classic would people -> clients -> weddings stay or would / should it remove the entire hierarchy because you removed the "end" keyword?

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that there are a lot of edge cases which could turn into doing a ton of changes in the CC version.  Oh, and don't forget that since CC, Mobile and Web are pretty much the same, all the theoretical new keywording hierarchy and synonyms and person vs not person (and the person tagging would probably mean you'd need to implement face tagging and recognition in CC as well) and export or not would have to show up in web and ios and ipad os.

 

I want to see it as much as anyone else, but I think it's more complicated than "it's not a technical decision but rather one to piss off customers".