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44 Messages

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3.1K Points

Thu, Oct 19, 2017 7:11 AM

163

Lightroom Classic : Ability to sync Keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me).
Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app. 
Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

Responses

Official Solution

Champion

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3K Messages

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55.6K Points

3 years ago

This is a known limitation. Keywords do not sync between Lightroom Classic and the cloud.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

If it would be a "limitation", then we would have two different sets of keywords. We do not have two different sets of captions (they are synced) or copyrights (are synced too).This can not be intentionally, so it must be a bug. 

Champion

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3K Messages

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55.6K Points

I can assure you that it is intentionally.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

OK, two different sets of keywords for the same picture within the same collection and the same cloud ... Adobe needs to explain that.

Champion

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3K Messages

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55.6K Points

No, there are not two sets in the cloud. There is only one set in the cloud: the set coming from Lightroom CC. Lightroom Classic does not sync keywords to (or from) the cloud at all.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

OK, I correct: two one picture two different sets of keywords are associated. Imagine that for other parameters ... this makes no sense for the user.

Official Solution

Adobe Administrator

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7.9K Messages

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115.1K Points

2 years ago

"I would like to know if it is deliberate or not. "

Oliver - this is as-designed behavior. 

Lightroom Classic uses hierarchical keywords. 
Lightroom CC (all platforms) uses a combination of AI keywords plus user-entered keywords in a non-hierarchical schema. 

When you migrate a Lightroom Classic CC catalog into Lightroom CC there is a one-time transference of keywords from Classic to CC but those keywords are flattened out of their hierarchy.

A hierarchical schema is not compatible for various workflow reasons with a flat schema - ergo there is no syncing of keywords between the two.  The two products are designed for different audiences and workflows. 

There is a feature request for addition of hierarchy in the CC world: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/keywords-controlled-vocabulary You can add your vote there and include comments. 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy 

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

I happen not to be a fan of hierarchical keywording, but maybe everyone should vote for this feature request in the hope that it would remove the incompatibility excuse?
It's very disappointing that Adobe doesn't find some way to implement mobile keywording that integrates with established Classic workflows. Classic users might then view the mobile keywording feature as imperfect yet reasonably valuable rather than as a complete waste of effort. For example, LR might only sync mobile keywords to Classic as children of a specially-defined keyword. The current arbitrary fragmented workflow might suit branding, it doesn't suit many users.

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

Still there is the option in Lightroom Classic CC to synchronize your collections with Lightroom CC - not migrate (that I would never ever do, Lightroom CC is impossible to use if you have more than a few snapshots taken on your iPhone or iPad where I live - the network coverage simply isn't suitable) and the synchronized images are perfectly suited (and designed) to be presented or even edited - but not the keywords because it seems you are too stupid to see the workflow that many have. I have talked to every photographer I know and every single one of them who is using Lightroom Classic CC would like to see the ability to keyword his synchronized collections from Lightroom CC - because it's convenient to sit on a comfy chair and organize the images instead of having to sit in the stuffy office and work on the image editing workplace.

So that's a glaring omission that really get's on a lot of people's nerves. I have keyworded my images extensively in Lightroom Classic CC and would like to be able to search for the keywords in the synchronized colllections in Lightroom CC. Last time I was asked in promptu to show some images from European Mantis because that's what I was talking about at the time - I needed to know in which collection they are (some rather large ones) and about in which position, at the time I didn't find my best shots because I didn't remember in which collection they were. The ability to find them would have been facilitated with ease by entering "Mantis" and then I would have had my images at hand - but no, the keywords aren't available. So, sorry, the discrepancy in keyword design doesn't bother me as a user, as a designer you have made a big mistake if you can't bridge the gap between products that were designed to be used in conjunction!

The differentiation between Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC thus is rather artificial. Lightroom Mobile (from which Lightroom CC was eventually created) was the cloud part of the Adobe Creative Cloud for Lightroom CC (what later became Lightroom Classic CC) - so don't give me the "different audiences and workflows" crap. That's a sorry excuse for not having keywords synchronize!

5 Messages

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122 Points

Right on Karl!

175 Messages

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3.7K Points

Totally right. Everything is artificial.
This morning in the building site we were offline. I was not able to use search using Lr Cc. I had to use my tinny iPhone screen to show something.
Total mess
And if we complain, somebody will explain either we want to use LR a way it was not intended to.
Or we do not understand the way it is intended to
And finally somebody explain me the 2 software we’re design for 2 audience.
Artificial. Yes. It is the word.

1 Message

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100 Points

There is clearly logic to flatten keywords at initial load to Lightroom CC, so if that is acceptable to those who have converted it should be acceptable to use that same logic ongoing (after the initial load).

286 Messages

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5.2K Points

3 years ago

John and Johan, looks like you have insider information. Ok, then the whole keyword sync is useless. Shame on Adobe Software Engineering :-)
I am an Engineer by myself and know how difficult such a sync mechanismn is. Let us hope the best that they change their minds and implement it later.

16 Messages

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586 Points

3 years ago

I also think this syncing issue is a big let down. I was hoping to give keywords also in Lightroom cc and Lightroom web and they sync to LR classic

286 Messages

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5.2K Points

3 years ago

Have tested the sync of caption/subtitle and it working fine. You can change it in Web, LR Mobile or LR Classic and sync is done in each direction.
This gives me hope that Adobe is fixing the Keyword Sync. No Engineer is implementing caption sync and not keyword sync. Anyway, caption sync is working for me because I am doing all my keyword tagging with Photo Mechanics and fill caption field automatically with name of picture folder and keywords.

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

@peter, how do you get your tags from Photo Mechanics into the LR catalog?

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

"No Engineer is implementing caption sync and not keyword sync."

Don't bet on it, Peter.

If you consider it, caption sync is easier for the engineer - it's just reading/writing a photo's text entry. Each keyword is a separate entity, so syncing would need to loop through the keyword structure looking for matching items (note hierarchy is an issue) and then apply those keywords to the photo. So more difficult, but not rocket science - if the will is there.

PhotoMechanic, like Bridge, just uses xmp to store tags and other metadata, and LR simply reads that.

286 Messages

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5.2K Points

Yes, it is easier, but Engineers love a challenge. But could be they were stopped by Marketing or Finance.
I am using Photo Mechanics for some years, because PM does not have a catalog. In LR Classic you can create a Smart Collection to find all picture with changed metadata by third party apps and then you can read all these updated meta data. This is useful if you do all your tagging in PM and want to have this info synced to LR mobile. Currently I am using Mylio for that, but my hope was to have all in LR. I am not giving up hope.

1 Message

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100 Points

As everything else is synchronised between LR Classic and Lightroom CC, It seems very surprising that there is no connection in both direction for keywords. I really hope that this problem will be solved very soon. It seems that many people are, as I am, waiting for that !Many thanks , Olivier

175 Messages

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3.7K Points

it seems to be totally deliberate. And one champion explains no more information will ever be synchronize from Classic to the cloud.

472 Messages

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12.2K Points

3 years ago

This thread is quite confusing.  Is there an Adobe document someplace that explains this in all its permutations? 

However, this may explain why some of my keyworded images from LR Classic show Keywords in LR/CC and some do not.  And, that explanation - according to this thread - is that some of my synced images have metadata written back to the image file and some don't - which is entirely possible.

I just took one of my CR2 RAW files which did not show any keywords in LR/CC and saved the metadata to an XMP file in LR Classic.  Indeed, the keywords did not appear in LR/CC desktop or LR Web.  However, an DNG image with saved metadata does show Keywords in both LR/CC Desktop and LR/CC Web but changes made to keywords in classic do not migrate to the cloud.

I think I need another computer to help me understand this logic which is quite inconsistent.  Given  Adobe's justification of no folders being "why should you care what folder something is in as long as you can find it:" - I'm surprised that they would give us a situation where you have to know the underlying file type in order to know how the system will work.  I'm hoping that is a bug and not a design feature. 

1 Message

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260 Points

3 years ago

It's a real shame, I have thousands of tags done in LR Classic - if I can't use them in CC this is pretty worthless for me. Any comments from Adobe??

Champion

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5K Messages

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91.8K Points

3 years ago

According to Victoria Bampton (Lightroom Queen), who is pretty well-plugged-in to Adobe, "no new sync functionality will be added to Classic (so keywords and collection hierarchy won’t sync)."

88 Messages

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2.3K Points

So they want us to move away from Adobe. Sad.

3 Messages

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124 Points

I just feel in the same way.

286 Messages

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5.2K Points

3 years ago

Hi John, do you think Classic will be obsolet in some time? And is Adobe is implementing all Classic Feature into LR Mobile aka LR CC ?

Champion

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5K Messages

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91.8K Points

Leading questions! Though I have (strong) opinions on all this, I recommend reading Bampton's recent blog posts: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/blog/.  In my own opinion, Adobe has for several years pared back investment in desktop LR, putting in the bare minimum to maintain desktop LR's revenue stream.  I don't see that changing.

4 Messages

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252 Points

3 years ago

It is disappointing to learn that keyword syncing with Lightroom Mobile only works with the less feature-rich Lightroom CC and not with Lightroom Classic CC. I hope Adobe reconsiders and adds that functionality to Classic. It should've been added at introduction of Mobile. 

250 Messages

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6K Points

3 years ago

I understand one of the main reasons for this is that Adobe changed to a flat keyword hierarchy in Lightroom CC while Lightroom Classic has nested keywords (you know like Europe -> Iceland -> Reykjavik -> opera house). Lightroom CC cannot do any of that and likely will never gain this capability as apparently it is too hard for the typical user to use. Most of my keywords are hierarchical and I can't see a flat hierarchy working well for me.

29 Messages

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1K Points

3 years ago

I have wasted many hours keywording images on Lightroom CC, only to find that they haven't synced back to Lightroom Classic CC. I was excited about Lightroom CC, as I thought it would be really useful for when I'm out on the road I would be able to do all my processing on my laptop, then sync everything back to my main editing machine when I got home. It sort of half works, which is disappointing.

Champion

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5.8K Messages

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102.2K Points

Let me ask a question Lewis... what features is Lightroom CC desktop that you'd need before you could move over from Lightroom Classic?

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

Really? You need to ask? Lightroom CC has almost none of the functionality needed to replace Lightroom Classic and it mandates use of the cloud for the RAW images, something that is impossible for most because of bandwidth constraints - I have the fastest internet connection available in the street where I live, to upload a single RAW image takes minutes (and they aren’t that big). My mobile plan is expensive and is capped at 200 MB/month - any mobile use of original RAW images is out of the question.

But for those asking here the killer of the new dumbed down Lightroom CC would be the lack of hierarchical keywords!

Champion

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5.8K Messages

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102.2K Points

Thanks Karl. I'm well aware that it doesn't have most of the features - I was looking to understand your priorities and workflow, because you obviously like the idea of cloud computing. 

The mobile CC app doesn't have hierarchical keywords either, but that was ok for your hours of keywording? How did you end up working around that one?

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

I was answering your question more genericly, I myself didn’t spent as much time on keywords in LR on my mobile device in the end (unlike the guy you responded to). Still I was pissed that I have spent time on a lost cause, LR CC has a bug if it even allows keyword entry for images where it knows not to sync them back!

I do use a combination of hierarchical and non hierarchical keywords, so even to have those non hierarchical ones sync back would have been helpful for me. But it’s a major bug to even give the impression that you can keyword for smart previews originating from LR Classic. I am a software developer myself and if I were to be given the task to implement a feature like that then I would have to make it work for all input data or at the very least prevent it’s use when it’s not feasible to work.

And the sorry excuse of “LR CC users don’t understand hierarchical keywords” doesn’t work, if LR CC is ever to get to replace LR Classic then it must provide these as well!

Champion

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5.8K Messages

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102.2K Points

Ah thanks Karl, I didn't spot that you weren't Lewis!

I do agree that Adobe's communication on the lack of keyword sync with Classic has left a lot to be desired, and I think we'll see more of these issues crop up as the gap starts to widen, with more features being added to the mobile apps without being synced back to Classic.

In Adobe's mind, the LRCC mobile apps are intended to sync with the LRCC desktop apps from this time on. They didn't remove the existing sync functionality from Classic, but they didn't add new keyword sync functionality to Classic either. They are trying to separate the two different mindsets (desktop based vs cloud sync), because trying to shoehorn cloud sync into a desktop-focused app just doesn't work well. I'm not going to comment on the rights or wrongs of those decisions, but that's what they're thinking.

10 Messages

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270 Points

3 years ago

Hey Adobe! That about the keyword sync fixing ?

6 Messages

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436 Points

3 years ago

I fully agree with Kaffeesegler. I have been using Lightroom since LR1 and I am really fond of this software. Lightroom CC seems to me a huge step forward and I try to use it on my laptop for more than 2 months. However key-words are a serious issue. Compared to Lightroom Classic Lightroom CC handles key words very poorly and above all sync between LR Classic and LR CC doesn't really work for key words. For me this is a huge drawback and prevents me tu use LR CC efficiently on my laptop. I hope that Adobe will change his mind and reconsider key words in LR CC.