detlef_hoepfner's profile

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

Thu, Oct 19, 2017 7:11 AM

184

Lightroom Classic : Ability to sync Keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me).
Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app. 
Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

Responses

Champion

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2.4K Messages

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39.1K Points

3 y ago

I have a similar issue and trying to determine the cause. I'm using LR Classic 8.0 to upload images in a synced collection to the Cloud. When I go to LR Web (https://lightroom.adobe.com/) I can see all of the pictures in the collection, but only some of the images are showing the keywords assigned using LR Classic only and NOT LR CC. Some of the keywords were added after the collection was synced, but that shouldn't matter correct? If I apply Develop module edits to any image file in that collection the changes do get synced to the Cloud and can be seen in the Web view. I did install LR CC 2.0.2, but only to sync my custom camera profiles to the Cloud.

I forgot to add that this synced collection is now visible inside LR CC 2.0.2, but I have not applied any edits, keywords or added images.

Any ideas?


326 Messages

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5.6K Points

3 y ago

Meanwhile I consider to switch from LR CC Classic to LR CC, then all is in sync. I have already bought the 1TB plan, but I would like to have a good backup of all my post processing steps. I mean a catalog similar to LR classic. Last year Victoria mentioned in Adobe forum that there is a local cache. Is this enough as a backup?

29 Messages

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564 Points

3 y ago

Here's a partial solution, though incomplete: 

If you're main desire is to create a gallery with up-to-date keywords, consider getting a SmugMug account.   I have their basic plan at $47.88/year, and there are plug-ins that allow you to sync a gallery with LR Classic, using the publish service.  You can edit keywords, titles, or captions on either end and have them sync to the other.  Visitors can sync on a keyword (i.e. person's name) and see all photos to which it applies.

The caveats:
  • Keywords are flat in SmugMug.  However, if you add one on the site that currently exists in your hierarchy, then when it syncs back, it will match it in the hierarchy.  I'm assuming this will break down in the event that you have more than one keyword with the same name.
  • You currently need to use two plug-ins to sync in both directions.  The official plug-in does a great job of updating the gallery if anything changes in LR.  However, I didn't find it to work at all when syncing changes from SmugMug back to LR.  In order to pull that off, you need to use a 2nd plug-in called Smug Syncback for Lightroom.  (This might be something you don't need, however.)
  • As a result, syncing is not automatic.  To sync from LR -> SmugMug, you either use the Publish command (for photo details or titles, keywords, and captions) or the Smug Syncback plug-in (just titles, keywords, and captions).   To sync back (titles, keywords, and captions), you need to use a command from the Smug Syncback plug-in.
  • Only titles, keywords, and captions can be synced back from SmugMug.  There is no ability to change the star rating of a photo within SmugMug, although the rating is viewable (but not prominent in any way).  You can make other edits to the photo on SmugMug, such as cropping, rotating, and color effects, but those don't sync back to LR. 
  • There's no facial recognition component or even the ability to demarcate a section of the photo to indicate who a keyword applies to, on SmugMug.  (I'm thinking, I might put up some old photos and ask relatives to identify people in the photo.  The most they can do is write in the keyword.  I would need to match it up with someone in the photo myself, using LR.)


537 Messages

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12.8K Points

3 y ago

When one first adds an image in Classic to a Synced collection, the keywords on that image find their way to the Cloud version.  However, any subsequent changes to keywords in Classic to dot sync to the cloud and vice-versa.  

One way to "force" your classic Keywords to the cloud is to remove the image from all synced collections in Classic (i like to wait till I verify they are gone from the Cloud version) then add them back to their respective synced collections.  This of course requires them to be re-uploaded which can be time consuming if you have a lot of them.

The other thing I should point out (which I consider a bug) is that ALL keywords sync to the cloud, regardless of the check boxes on those keywords.  So, if you have keywords marked to be excluded on exports, they still are included in the cloud version of the image.  For example "My idiot cousin Fred".  Even though Adobe still says that syncing keywords is not a feature of the products and they have no intention of making it a feature the fact that keywords from Classic do go to the cloud they should at least adhere to the same rules as exporting.

Dan

PS if you think keyword syncing is important please vote for this thread  - DH

3 Messages

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140 Points

2 y ago

As a new adopter of Lightroom CC, I am stunned that my years of Lightroom Classic CC keywords will not sync properly with this new cloud/mobile platform. Adobe is supposed to be the "Gold Standard" for the industry. I don't understand how the company can disregard such a basic need.

537 Messages

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12.8K Points

2 y ago

Alan (and others),

I know about the Sensei engine for finding images in CC.  For example "Waterfall" or "Fred" or "Golden Gate Bridge" but my understanding is that this is an AI search technology at the point of query and does not result in the saving or storage of any actual keywords with the image(s).  And, i infer that the Sensei search not only interprets image content (pixels), but also includes the search of keywords attached to images by the photographer (either came along from Classic when first synced or added by hand in CC). 

Do you have info that the CC Sensei technology also adds actual keywords to images based on analysis of the pixels?  If so that would be quite interesting to know.

Dan

537 Messages

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12.8K Points

2 y ago

If CC is ever to be taken seriously, it must be considered as being "in addition to" classic, rather than "in place of" Classic.  There is just too much missing from CC for Adobe to bridge the gap using the current CC architecture and design.  It's just not up to the task.  Therefore Adobe must assure that they work well together.  That means syncing all creditably data.  That may also mean implementing hierarchical keywording in CC as an option.   

There are some nice things about the CC version but there is so much missing that using it is like trying to play Mozart on a piano made by Mattel.

Champion

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6K Messages

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103.6K Points

2 y ago

As I described above, the Adobe Creative SDK inexplicably omits keywords from its APIs.  If it provided keywords (a very small amount of engineering), then plugins could easily sync keywords in both directions, even handling the common use-cases of hierarchical keywords. So add your vote to this feature request: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/creative-sdk-provide-access-to-lightroom-cc-keywords

A couple years ago Adobe promised a shiny new CC Storage API that would provide access to all Creative Cloud "assets" using modern REST APIs.  Recently, they've said it's coming in 2019.  One can only hope that they don't omit keywords and other metadata from the API.   If they ever deliver a full-fledged API, then a third-party plugin could provide the full sync between Classic and CC that Adobe doesn't want to implement: keywords, smart collections, syncing originals rather than smart previews, more flexible deletion:
https://www.adobe.io/apis/creativecloud/ccstorageapi.html

537 Messages

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12.8K Points

2 y ago

I'd like to extend this "FEATURE REQUEST"  a bit. 

We need a way to designate options on Keywords in Classic that pertain to syncing.  Right now, when the Smart Collection used for syncing is first created (either by the user or automatically) all the keywords get included in the smart preview including all parent keywords and excluding all synonyms - regardless of which options are selected in the add/edit keyword screen.  What we need is the addition of a few more options on keywords such as "Sync this Keyword",  "Sync Synonyms",  "Sync Containing Keyword".  

One of the excuses Adobe has expressed in implementing keyword syncing is that keywords in LR Cloud are linear whereas in LR Classic they are hierarchical.  One solution would be to make them hierarchical in the LR Cloud eco-system as well but that may be too much to ask. 

Assuming they stay linear in one and hierarchical in the other, presents a problem as the same Keyword can appear in several hierarchies in Classic.  For example "Red" could be under "Birds" and under "Cars" in LR Classic but in LR Cloud there could only be one which would make syncing problematic.  Without going into all the logic permutations, one solution  is that in LR Classic, whenever you mark a Keyword to Sync, it checks to assure that another keyword with the same name but under a different parent is not also marked to Sync.  If so, it would deny the request to mark it for sync.  In this way, there would no longer be a case where a single keyword in LR Cloud could map to more than one keyword in LR Classic.  In our example, if one wanted both occurrences of "red" to sync, the user would need to rename one or both of them (e.g.  Red-Bird and Red-Car).

4 Messages

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154 Points

2 y ago

I don't see why the keywords cannot be made the same between LR Classic and LR Mobile.  It's too difficult to do any more than moderate edits on the phone, but tagging is a great use of down time, if only they would sync back to Classic.  Heck, even if it doesn't have the same hierarchy, at least a tag can be set and easily re-tagged in classic.

537 Messages

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12.8K Points

2 y ago

Even keeping the constraint that LR Classic uses hierarchical KW's and LR Cloud uses a linear (flat) KW structure, this problem can be solved.  There are, of course, some technical aspects but the main rationale I've heard so far for not doing this is the logical problem of how to map a hierarchical structure to a linear structure.  One solution is to convert LR Cloud to a hierarchical structure but putting that aside, here is one possible solution to that problem:

1)  In LR Classic, Adobe can add check boxes in the create/edit keyword dialog for
  • "Sync this KW with LR Cloud"
  • "Sync Containing KW's with LR Cloud"
  • "Sync Synonyms with LR Cloud (would become regular KW's in LR Cloud)
2)  When a user ticks any of these boxes, LR Classic would check to assure that it is not redundant.  For example.  If you already ticked KW "Red" under "Flowers", and now you are trying to tick keyword "Red" under "Cars": it would reject the request as a duplicate.  By doing this, it will enforce a one to one correspondence between ticked KW's in LR Classic and KW's in LR Cloud - thus allowing two way sync

3)  If an image in LR Classic gets or loses a keyword with one or more of these ticked boxes, or the tick's get changed, that change can be placed in the Smart Preview (or XMP data) and can sync to LR Cloud.  This may include adding the KW to LR Cloud, adding an LR Cloud KW to the image or removing a KW from the image in LR Cloud

4)  If a user defined KW is added to an image in LR Cloud it could map to either no KW's in LR Classic or at the most to one "ticked" KW in LR Classic.  In the former case, LR Classic would create the new KW at the root level of the Hierarchy with "Sync this KW with LR Cloud" ticked.  In the later case there would be only 1 ticked LR Classic Keyword with that name that would be affected.

THIS CAN BE DONE if there is a will to do so at Adobe and the more people who "vote" for having KW's sync between the ecosystems, the more it will push Adobe to re-consider this.   

20 Messages

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356 Points

2 y ago

It is really easy to understand.
Adobe does not want you to manage your keyword. As far your use Classic, you are in control. As far you use mobile, you lose control on your asset. Everything is done you can't use Classic and mobile in conjunction to make your asset virtually "captive". 
So Adobe will not make it. You have the choice of using the old and slow Classic or the new and fast but weak mobile.
Pay may friend, pay.

2 Messages

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152 Points

2 y ago

It is such a pity not to be able to edit, tag keywords, identify faces.... on mobile while traveling for a long period and have these synced on the computer while coming back at home. It seems so obvious. Some features are not accessible on the mobile version (starting with print) and you cannot do them based on the info you / faces tagged! And adobe has intention of implementing this ? It means adobe has no intention to allow a proper mobile + desktop workflow! This questions why I should get the expensive cloud (mobile + classic) package... I’m a customer for lightroom from the beginning and was excited to implement a mobile workflow. What a disappointment!
Is thee any turn around? Any process to get into classic the info I took hours tu plug in the mobile version? Export and re import....

1 Message

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80 Points

2 y ago

I agree with all the above comments. I purchased Lightroom many years ago and kept upgrading until the subscription version came out. Then I sat for many years. Then maps stopped working. Then I started getting odd artifacts on my screen, so I updated to the subscription model. I was shocked to see that I could not syn key words. Missing this feature is huge. Like others I would like to organization on my mobile and do more detailed edit on the PC. If I can't I don't need the mobile version, so I may as well just move away from Lightroom to another organizer. Adobe please fix before I decided to move. As you know moving will be hard so once I do it I will not be coming back.

1 Message

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62 Points

1 y ago

Would be great to have this feature in the near future. It cannot be a solution to do the sync of the keywords manually.