detlef_hoepfner

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

Thu, Oct 19, 2017 7:11 AM

175

Lightroom Classic : Ability to sync Keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me).
Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app.
Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

Responses

Official Solution

Johan_Elzenga

Champion

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3.4K Messages

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59K Points

3 years ago

This is a known limitation. Keywords do not sync between Lightroom Classic and the cloud.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

detlef_hoepfner

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

If it would be a "limitation", then we would have two different sets of keywords. We do not have two different sets of captions (they are synced) or copyrights (are synced too).This can not be intentionally, so it must be a bug.

3 years ago

Johan_Elzenga

Champion

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3.4K Messages

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59K Points

I can assure you that it is intentionally.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

3 years ago

detlef_hoepfner

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

OK, two different sets of keywords for the same picture within the same collection and the same cloud ... Adobe needs to explain that.

3 years ago

Johan_Elzenga

Champion

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3.4K Messages

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59K Points

No, there are not two sets in the cloud. There is only one set in the cloud: the set coming from Lightroom CC. Lightroom Classic does not sync keywords to (or from) the cloud at all.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

3 years ago

detlef_hoepfner

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

OK, I correct: two one picture two different sets of keywords are associated. Imagine that for other parameters ... this makes no sense for the user.

3 years ago

peter_obermeier_5n1m1dvgiycd0

310 Messages

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5.4K Points

Keywords sync from LR Classic to LR Mobile, but not from LR Mobile to LR Classic. Star ratings sync in both direction. Changes in picture sync in both directions. For me this missing keyword sync is a bug. And Adobe will fix it.

3 years ago

john_beardsworth

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

That's not right Peter. I would phrase it like this - and advise you to read carefully "Keywords sync from LR Classic to LR Mobile if the keywords have been saved directly into the image itself (not xmp sidecar) when the image is first uploaded, but not from LR Mobile to LR Classic"

This is not a bug. It is Adobe's deliberate design decision.

3 years ago

Johan_Elzenga

Champion

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3.4K Messages

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59K Points

Correct. So if you upload from a raw file the keywords will not sync. If you upload from a TIFF or JPEG and you've written the metadata to the file itself, they will sync, but only once. If you make any changes, those changes will not sync.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

3 years ago

theo_angell_8xpq65fnkuvtt

3 Messages

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294 Points

And therein lies the problem: A flaw by design is just as bad as any flaw!

3 years ago

Sven

116 Messages

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2.6K Points

why the hell is Adobe designing like that? Do they listen to LR Classic users still?

3 years ago

MattTakesPhotosOfStuff

44 Messages

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1.1K Points

In response to Johan it has been my experience that it doesn't matter what file type you upload (RAW, DNG, TIF, JPG and even virtual copies) it will only sync the keywords one time from Classic to CC. I only use sidecar files for a specific something else so I can't speak to that here. All I do is type them into the keywords box before the original upload and they get synced even if they are for a RAW file. Most of what I sync is Nikon RAW. Yes I know I am digging up a 3 month old post but it is SUPER aggravating that this is still a thing.

3 years ago

John_R_Ellis

Champion

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5.6K Messages

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98.3K Points

Unfortunately, it will likely remain a thing:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/keyword-bug?topic-reply-list[settings][filter...

3 years ago

antoine_hlmn

1K Messages

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16.7K Points

Sad news indeed. This attitude of “we know what you want and what’s best for you” is really frustrating!

3 years ago

calje

1 Message

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168 Points

Indeed, not syncing keywords from LR CC to LR Classic makes keywording in LR CC useless. So, their "mobile solution" is not as mobile as promised :-(

3 years ago

edward_coderre

11 Messages

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342 Points

Disappointing. Totally non intuitive thinking! You would expect everything added in Mobile would sync to Lightroom CC and vice-versa. Otherwise...what's the point?

2 years ago

patrick_hudgell

10 Messages

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318 Points

This is appalling. I have a 50k image database that has been keyworded painstakingly over ten years and I use the keywords to find images. When I try to use Lightroom CC mobile I cannot see the keywords. That makes the product virtually useless in my view. It is like selling a car that has no lights. Yes, you can drive it but only in the daytime!!

2 years ago

peter_obermeier_5n1m1dvgiycd0

310 Messages

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5.4K Points

Hi Patrick, please try to use the filter function in LR mobile, here you should see your keywords even at night and without internet access :-)

2 years ago

jao_van_de_lagemaat

263 Messages

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6.2K Points

Patrick can't use the filter function since he entered those keywords in Classic and Lightroom CC will not know about them since keywords don't sync from Classic to CC except for very limited circumstances (xmp files were written and it is the first sync)

2 years ago

Rikk

Adobe Administrator

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9.5K Messages

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130.8K Points

For Patrick to use his Lightroom Classic CC keywords in the Lightroom CC ecosystem, he would have to perform a one-time catalog migration from Classic to CC - Desktop App. In the Migration process, the keyword hierarchy (if any) in Classic would be flattened in Lightroom CC. Keyword Synonyms would also be lost in the process.

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

2 years ago

peter_obermeier_5n1m1dvgiycd0

310 Messages

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5.4K Points

Hmmh, I have my keywords in LR Classic and synced to LR CC. Yes, Adobe should make a 100% sync function, but I believe they will drop LR classic first

2 years ago

patrick_hudgell

10 Messages

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318 Points

Thanks for your suggestions but I spent the afternoon talking to Adobe and they have confirmed that they cannot show keywords that were generated in LR Classic in the CC mobile version. I get the impression that there is some fundamental architectural reason for this. The only way I have so far found to do what I want is to export images as jpgs into the same folder as the original raw files and simultaneously add back in to the LR Classic catalogue. The keywords are then embedded in the jpg so all versions of LR then see the keywords. I have spent the last ten years using the Classic version of LR so am reluctant to change and have not yet looked at the desktop version of CC. That may be the answer. Further investigation required.......

2 years ago

jao_van_de_lagemaat

263 Messages

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6.2K Points

That is what this thread is all about. There are reasons but they are not completely insurmountable technically.
If you have used Classic for that long you will be deeply disappointed by Lightroom CC on the desktop. It misses most of the essential features of Classic. You can't print, you can't easily publish images to social media, you can't export to anything but sRGB jpeg, you can't do smart collections, keywords are flat, and on and on. The only things CC can do that Classic can't are the uploading of full raw images to the cloud (which Classic can't do for no real reason) and it has an artificial intelligence built in (only when you are internet connected) that allows you to search for visual elements that the AI can detect. That's it. I think the best use case for Lightroom CC is as a mobile companion to Classic. I will sometimes travel with just an iPad and import images to it and do small edits. The images will show up fully edited when I get back on my Classic machine. Same with raw images shot on my phone using the CC app. They just show up in Classic neatly filed in my filing hierarchy (an option you have to enable). Lightroom CC on the computer is really just a port of the mobile Lightroom to the desktop. It is similarly limited. If you are an iPhone shooter or have limited number of images and have limited needs (you never print for example) then it is really neat that everything syncs across platforms seamlessly. As soon as you do anything more complex with your images, you need Classic.

2 years ago

dan_hartford

522 Messages

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12.6K Points

Amen. Totally agree.

2 years ago

sylvain_guieu

7 Messages

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282 Points

Stil do not get also why you cannot upload full raw on classic (at least linked to your catalog). I will never subscribe to CC for that, but I would subscribe to the 1To plan tomorrow if this is allowed. To sync smart previews between phone and computer the 20Go is enough.
I really do not understand this keyword limitation. Does not really make sens and the technical explanation is BS.

2 years ago

jao_van_de_lagemaat

263 Messages

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6.2K Points

The full raw syncing thing is similar to the keyword thing. I have a request here that you should add your vote to: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-classic-should-be-able-to-sync-full... but don't expect this to change as I think this ship sailed a long time ago. Still can't hurt to make sure they know it is something users want to see.

2 years ago

dan_hartford

522 Messages

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12.6K Points

so, let's go down the list....

1) Keywords in CC are flat, not hierarchical as they are in Classic.
Okay, Keywords in a JPG file are flat as well and LR seems to be able to bridge that gap OK. On export, LR keywords are flattened. On import JPG keywords already present in Classic are just used on the image wherever they are in the hierarchy and any new KW's in the JPG are added to the KW list at the the root level of the hierarchy. So, they already have the algorithm to do this

2) Adobe would like to minimize the use of KW's in CC (IMHO) and have people rely on their AI (Sensei) engine. So, other than not wanting to expend resources on Keywords, is not a technical reason preventing the sync of KW's.

3) Users may not want all their Keywords from Classic to migrate to the cloud. This is a true statement. But, right now, in many situations when you add an image to a synced collection at already copies Classic KW's to the cloud. And, just adding a 4th check box to on keyword's in Classic called "Sync this Keyword in Adobe Cloud" to decide whether or not to copy and sync each keyword with the cloud.

4) Keyword sync is too complex for the skill level of the programmers at Adobe. Well, this is all we are left with as a "technical" reason not to sync keywords but is absolute nonsense. If they can figure out how to sync all the complexities of image edits, doing the same thing with Keywords is trivial.

So, no matter what they say about "technical reasons" - what they mean is "we don't want to spend any significant money on improving Classic as it will divert resources from CC development and we are trying to get people off of Classic and on to CC so why would be do something that would encourage people to stay on Classic?

It's as simple as that.

2 years ago

antoine_hlmn

1K Messages

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16.7K Points

Exactly !

And even: at first, they said it was a technical reason. No one believed it and now it is "by design" and "Classic will not get any new sync feature" and "switch to LR CC if you want more sync capabilities".

Your statement

what they mean is "we don't want to spend any significant money on improving Classic as it will divert resources from CC development and we are trying to get people off of Classic and on to CC so why would be do something that would encourage people to stay on Classic?

is exacly right. I would also add: "Adobe wants the users to switch to cloud also because it's more difficult to migrat to another solution afterwards!"

2 years ago

Jerry_Syder

613 Messages

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12.4K Points

I'm not so sure if this is true because they are continuously adding new features to Classic.

Jerry Syder, www.jsyder.co.uk - Insta @takenword

2 years ago

sylvain_guieu

7 Messages

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282 Points

What I do not get is the attitude of Adobe, there is industrial secrets involved here. They can say something like “we want to bring all the (keys) possibilities of LR classic to CC little by little to this modern platform so nobody will need classic anymore. Therefore our focus is on making this a reality as soon as possible. The sync between classic and CC is more based on best effort.”
It would be clear for everybody.
The subscribion sheme imply a trusted partnership between us, clients and adobe.

2 years ago

Johan_Elzenga

Champion

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3.4K Messages

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59K Points

What they say is that Lightroom Classic is the desktop oriented app and Lightroom CC is the cloud oriented app. They could have (and maybe they should have) removed all sync features from Lightroom Classic, to make it perfectly clear where this app stands. I’m glad that they didn’t do that, but the result is that people keep having expectations for new or improved sync features that will not arrive.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

2 years ago

j_rgen_schmid_cxdjb9ogqapke

4 Messages

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226 Points

If Adobe develops something new it should make sense to its users, right? That is my expectation and it is not being fulfilled at all. What sense does it make to have two independet solutions, if one could support the other? Everybody is talking about workflow and what does Adobe deliver? Workflowinteruptions!
Sorry for being a bit emotional here, but it is true not "only" in this instance but also cannot sync libraries from LR CC cloudversion with Adobe Portfolio both ways, neither export file names into Adobe PF. So each single one a beautifully made app but they do not function together.

2 years ago

sylvain_guieu

7 Messages

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282 Points

Johan Elzenga. You will not be able to buy Lightroom classic anymore. You need a plan to have it, a plan that include the cloud capabilities . A bit of consistency would be greats

2 years ago

patrick_hudgell

10 Messages

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318 Points

It is still possible to buy Lightroom 6 perpetual licence here in the UK but I have heard rumours that may well be the last version. Sylvain, have you seen an official Adobe announcement that the non-CC version of Lightroom will be discontinued or are you just assuming that will happen?

2 years ago

sylvain_guieu

7 Messages

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282 Points

https://petapixel.com/2017/12/19/adob...

2 years ago

sylvain_guieu

7 Messages

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282 Points

http://m.dpreview.com/news/5525938279...

2 years ago

karl_g_nter_w_nsch

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

@Patrick, the perpetusl version is discontinued..It also doesn‘t have synch with the cloud version so is no part whatsoever of the problem discussed here!

2 years ago

patrick_hudgell

10 Messages

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318 Points

Thanks Sylvain. That is very helpful. Do you know if there is a document anywhere which describes the features in LR Classic that do not exist in the desktop CC implementation? I have only just started to test the desktop CC version and there seem to be a huge number of things missing.

2 years ago

karl_g_nter_w_nsch

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

Please take the differences between CC and Ckassic CC to another post - they are so numerous that it would derail this topic...

2 years ago

patrick_hudgell

10 Messages

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318 Points

@Karl. Thanks for your posts. I only started using this forum a couple of days ago so still getting used to how it works. The reason why I am interested in the future of standalone Lightroom is that I am working out ways to manage my workflow and one possibility (which would not involve losing keywords) is to use standalone Lightroom on both desktop and laptop and sync them by installing a shared catalog in the cloud (eg in Dropbox). Since LR6 is now a dead end that is probably not a very good solution! Thanks to everyone for their help on this.

2 years ago

hubertus_lemke

7 Messages

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326 Points

Yes, I agree with everything mentioned. I am highly content with the capabilities of LR Classic. The only drawback is that you need a notebook if you want to catalogue and edit photos while travelling. And I was real happy after Adobe announced a LR mobile. For me the main reason to work with LR CC (mobile) would be as a companion to LR Classic while travelling light. And I would gladly upgrade my Adobe plan to 1TB cloud storage if keywords entered in LR CC (mobile) would synchronize with LR Classic (if there is just a flat keyword hierarchy available in LR CC mobile, so be it for the time being) AND if there is a decent and acceptable way to add keywords in LR CC mobile (which is definitely not the case right now, what is offered is a cruel joke).

Without the above-mentioned features there is absolutely no reason for me to upgrade my Adobe plan. I have all of my photos of the last 45 years catalogued in LR Classic and there is absolutely no need to access them from every device (MacBook’s, iPads, iPhones etc.) I own. But if it comes to the couple of actual photographic projects I am working at a time access from a variety of devices would be of great help.

In my humble opinion Adobe is missing on a great business opportunity. The only reason for staying with Adobe right now is that there is no real alternative in the market (meaning: nobody offers a decent environment where you can catalogue and edit your pictures on an iPad while travelling and have all data synchronized to a Laptop afterwards). If this would change in the future Adobe might rethink their position .....

And please remember: this is written by someone who loves his Adobe products!

2 years ago

todd_shaner_6660895

Champion

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2.3K Messages

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38.2K Points

"Do you know if there is a document anywhere which describes the features in LR Classic that do not exist in the desktop CC implementation?"

Last updated November 5, 2018 so pretty current and informative. Keep in mind this is a moving target and it's expected Adobe will add more features currently in LR Classic to CC Desktop, Mobile, and Web apps.

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/lightroom-cc-vs-classic-features/

2 years ago

karl_g_nter_w_nsch

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

@Patrick, you don't want to use a synchronized catalog, simply create a small catalog for your mobile computer and at the end of the trip import that into the master catalog on your desktop...

2 years ago

dan_hartford

522 Messages

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12.6K Points

Jerry,

You say "I'm not so sure if this is true because they are continuously adding new features to Classic. "

Most all the significant features they add to Classic are in the develop module. The fact that these get added to classic is because they are part of ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) which is the code base used by Photoshop as well as LR Classic on the standard computer side and LR CC and Photoshop Mobile on the portable side. In other words they only have to code it once and it becomes available in all the systems. then for each platform they just need to add the slider or button to invoke to the code.

Dan

2 years ago

jao_van_de_lagemaat

263 Messages

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6.2K Points

I would disagree. Many of the new features introduced are outside of Develop. Even if you just look at Develop features, most of them are introduced first in Classic and you need to wait another release cycle for them to appear in CC. If you look at the last two releases for example, almost none of the new features apply to CC: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/whats-new.html. Compare that to https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/using/whats-new.html and you'll see.

2 years ago

Official Solution

Rikk

Adobe Administrator

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9.5K Messages

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130.8K Points

2 years ago

"I would like to know if it is deliberate or not. "

Oliver - this is as-designed behavior.

Lightroom Classic uses hierarchical keywords.
Lightroom CC (all platforms) uses a combination of AI keywords plus user-entered keywords in a non-hierarchical schema.

When you migrate a Lightroom Classic CC catalog into Lightroom CC there is a one-time transference of keywords from Classic to CC but those keywords are flattened out of their hierarchy.

A hierarchical schema is not compatible for various workflow reasons with a flat schema - ergo there is no syncing of keywords between the two. The two products are designed for different audiences and workflows.

There is a feature request for addition of hierarchy in the CC world: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/keywords-controlled-vocabulary You can add your vote there and include comments.

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

john_beardsworth

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

I happen not to be a fan of hierarchical keywording, but maybe everyone should vote for this feature request in the hope that it would remove the incompatibility excuse?
It's very disappointing that Adobe doesn't find some way to implement mobile keywording that integrates with established Classic workflows. Classic users might then view the mobile keywording feature as imperfect yet reasonably valuable rather than as a complete waste of effort. For example, LR might only sync mobile keywords to Classic as children of a specially-defined keyword. The current arbitrary fragmented workflow might suit branding, it doesn't suit many users.

2 years ago

karl_g_nter_w_nsch

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

Still there is the option in Lightroom Classic CC to synchronize your collections with Lightroom CC - not migrate (that I would never ever do, Lightroom CC is impossible to use if you have more than a few snapshots taken on your iPhone or iPad where I live - the network coverage simply isn't suitable) and the synchronized images are perfectly suited (and designed) to be presented or even edited - but not the keywords because it seems you are too stupid to see the workflow that many have. I have talked to every photographer I know and every single one of them who is using Lightroom Classic CC would like to see the ability to keyword his synchronized collections from Lightroom CC - because it's convenient to sit on a comfy chair and organize the images instead of having to sit in the stuffy office and work on the image editing workplace.

So that's a glaring omission that really get's on a lot of people's nerves. I have keyworded my images extensively in Lightroom Classic CC and would like to be able to search for the keywords in the synchronized colllections in Lightroom CC. Last time I was asked in promptu to show some images from European Mantis because that's what I was talking about at the time - I needed to know in which collection they are (some rather large ones) and about in which position, at the time I didn't find my best shots because I didn't remember in which collection they were. The ability to find them would have been facilitated with ease by entering "Mantis" and then I would have had my images at hand - but no, the keywords aren't available. So, sorry, the discrepancy in keyword design doesn't bother me as a user, as a designer you have made a big mistake if you can't bridge the gap between products that were designed to be used in conjunction!

The differentiation between Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC thus is rather artificial. Lightroom Mobile (from which Lightroom CC was eventually created) was the cloud part of the Adobe Creative Cloud for Lightroom CC (what later became Lightroom Classic CC) - so don't give me the "different audiences and workflows" crap. That's a sorry excuse for not having keywords synchronize!

2 years ago

douglas_chapman_fw8s5kpphys6l

5 Messages

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122 Points

Right on Karl!

2 years ago

olivier_guilloteaux

176 Messages

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3.7K Points

Totally right. Everything is artificial.
This morning in the building site we were offline. I was not able to use search using Lr Cc. I had to use my tinny iPhone screen to show something.
Total mess
And if we complain, somebody will explain either we want to use LR a way it was not intended to.
Or we do not understand the way it is intended to
And finally somebody explain me the 2 software we’re design for 2 audience.
Artificial. Yes. It is the word.

Go for C1, succeed your cloud by yourself

2 years ago

fred_merritt

1 Message

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100 Points

There is clearly logic to flatten keywords at initial load to Lightroom CC, so if that is acceptable to those who have converted it should be acceptable to use that same logic ongoing (after the initial load).

2 years ago

sylvain_guieu

7 Messages

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282 Points

If hierarchical keyword is the problem, I would prefer to have the choice in lightroom classic preferences to use flat keywording, convert all my catalog to flat keyword and then have the ability to sync keyword on CC.

Keywording is typically something you would like to do when taking the train or waiting your sandwich.

2 years ago

antoine_hlmn

1K Messages

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16.7K Points

That « tcechnical » issue was the first explanation why they would not implement keyword sync. Now it’s kind of official the won’t add sync functions to LR Classic, period.

2 years ago

sylvain_guieu

7 Messages

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282 Points

If the issue is not technical anymore, what is it ? - Commercial ? Force people to go full cloud - Resources ? Coast to much to implement.- Strategic ? Store and dilute version improvements and they announcement effects for later. - .... ?

2 years ago

Johan_Elzenga

Champion

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3.4K Messages

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59K Points

Of course it is still the same technical problem. Why they decided not to solve it is anyones guess. Strategic, too much work, commercial, who knows.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

2 years ago

antoine_hlmn

1K Messages

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16.7K Points

Sylvain, in my humble opinion:

Commercial ? Force people to go full cloud
—> obviously (And I’m tempted to use caps lock)

Resources ? Cost to much to implement
—> I don’t believe it. The could switch to LR CC

Strategic ?
—> Yes, minimal sync capabilities for Classic to push towards LR CC “full cloud”. My guess would be to make the switch to another app as difficult as possible.

Store and dilute version improvements and they announcement effects for later.
—> Not in this case. It might be the case for LR CC and mobile. They must have a roadmap for bigger functions but some updates come with almost no new features.

2 years ago

brian_watson_4511987

2 Messages

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132 Points

This is insane (and you’d be just as angry as I am if you had to deal with Adobe’s HORRIBLE customer service for the past 48 hours).

Why can I not, after loving and using Adobe products to support my photography workflows for more than two decades, have the needed functionality from Lightroom Classic and the ability to sync keywords back and forth between my Mac and iPad?

This needs to be rectified now. Like NOW, now.

2 years ago

antoine_hlmn

1K Messages

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16.7K Points

Brian, I’m as mad as you are, but you’re hurting yourself being mad. Adobe has let down Classic. They’ve given the bare minimum (although I’d say keywords would be part of that minimum) in terms of sync capabilities (and maybe also in terms of improvements).

For me, they keep Classic alive as long as Cloud is in a public/beta phase, but I expect Classic to die (being less and less updated) little by little until they can push everyone to Cloud.
I would advise to keep an eye on other DAMs for when switching will be the only option. (Yes adobe, I think many people stay on LR because we are lazy and used to our workflow).

2 years ago

dan_hartford

522 Messages

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12.6K Points

I posted this before, but here it is again

PROPOSED WAY (for Adobe) TO SYNC KEYWORDS BETWEEN CLASSIC AND CLOUDY

Even keeping the constraint that LR Classic uses hierarchical KW's and LR Cloud uses a linear (flat) KW structure, this problem can be solved. There are, of course, some technical aspects but the main rationale I've heard so far for not doing this is the logical problem of how to map a hierarchical structure to a linear structure. One solution is to convert LR Cloud to a hierarchical structure but putting that aside, here is one possible solution to that problem:

1) In LR Classic, Adobe can add check boxes in the create/edit keyword dialog for

· "Sync this KW with LR Cloud"

· "Sync Containing KW's with LR Cloud"

· "Sync Synonyms with LR Cloud (would become regular KW's in LR Cloud)”

2) . In LR Classic, whenever you mark a Keyword to Sync (as suggested above), it checks to assure that another keyword with the same name but under a different parent – or no parent - is not also marked to Sync. If it finds one it would deny the request to mark it for sync with a message. In this way, there would no longer be a case where a single keyword in LR Cloudy could map to more than one keyword in LR Classic. In our example, if one wanted both occurrences of "red" to sync, the user would need to rename one or both of them (e.g. Red-Bird and Red-Car).

3) When Adobe syncs LR/Classic to LR/Cloudy the hierarchical Keywords selected to sync will map to a flat keyword structure (due to rule 2). In addition, Parent keywords in LR/Classic can also sync into the flat LR/Cloudy structure where using “Sync Containing Keywords” options uses the same logic that is used today with export. Of course those sunced parent keywords would no longer be parents in LR/.Cloudy but would also be in the flat structure.

4) If an image in LR Classic loses a keyword or these tick's get changed, the changes on effected images can be placed in the Smart Preview (or XMP data) and can sync to LR Cloud. This may include adding or removing KW’s in LR Cloud or attaching/detaching keywords from images in LR Cloud

5) If a user defined KW is added to an image in LR Cloud it could map to either no KW in LR Classic or at most one "ticked" KW in LR Classic. In the former case, LR Classic would create the new KW at the root level of the Hierarchy with "Sync this KW with LR Cloud" ticked. In the later case there could be only 1 ticked LR Classic Keyword (or synonym) with that name that would be affected.

I worked for Adobe for several years and have a very high regard for the quality of the engineers there to solve this problem if management would just ask them to do it.

THIS CAN BE DONE if there is a will to do so at Adobe and the more people who "vote" for having KW's sync between the ecosystems, the more it will push Adobe to re-consider this.

a year ago

tommy_somers_6627833

8 Messages

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202 Points

Why not allready giving the possibility to sync keywords between lightroom classic an lightroom mobile in a flat way?

5 months ago

lewis_craik

33 Messages

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1.1K Points

Because they do not seem to care about Lightroom CC users...

5 months ago

antoine_hlmn

1K Messages

•

16.7K Points

Because « syncing strings is a technical difficulty », then « no further sync development will occur on classic ».

Now you know how Adobe treats you and thanks you for your money! Come again!

5 months ago

peter_obermeier_5n1m1dvgiycd0

310 Messages

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5.4K Points

3 years ago

John and Johan, looks like you have insider information. Ok, then the whole keyword sync is useless. Shame on Adobe Software Engineering :-)
I am an Engineer by myself and know how difficult such a sync mechanismn is. Let us hope the best that they change their minds and implement it later.

jens_koopmann

31 Messages

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802 Points

3 years ago

I also think this syncing issue is a big let down. I was hoping to give keywords also in Lightroom cc and Lightroom web and they sync to LR classic

peter_obermeier_5n1m1dvgiycd0

310 Messages

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5.4K Points

3 years ago

Have tested the sync of caption/subtitle and it working fine. You can change it in Web, LR Mobile or LR Classic and sync is done in each direction.
This gives me hope that Adobe is fixing the Keyword Sync. No Engineer is implementing caption sync and not keyword sync. Anyway, caption sync is working for me because I am doing all my keyword tagging with Photo Mechanics and fill caption field automatically with name of picture folder and keywords.

detlef_hoepfner

44 Messages

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3.1K Points

@peter, how do you get your tags from Photo Mechanics into the LR catalog?

3 years ago

john_beardsworth

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

"No Engineer is implementing caption sync and not keyword sync."

Don't bet on it, Peter.

If you consider it, caption sync is easier for the engineer - it's just reading/writing a photo's text entry. Each keyword is a separate entity, so syncing would need to loop through the keyword structure looking for matching items (note hierarchy is an issue) and then apply those keywords to the photo. So more difficult, but not rocket science - if the will is there.

PhotoMechanic, like Bridge, just uses xmp to store tags and other metadata, and LR simply reads that.

3 years ago

peter_obermeier_5n1m1dvgiycd0

310 Messages

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5.4K Points

Yes, it is easier, but Engineers love a challenge. But could be they were stopped by Marketing or Finance.
I am using Photo Mechanics for some years, because PM does not have a catalog. In LR Classic you can create a Smart Collection to find all picture with changed metadata by third party apps and then you can read all these updated meta data. This is useful if you do all your tagging in PM and want to have this info synced to LR mobile. Currently I am using Mylio for that, but my hope was to have all in LR. I am not giving up hope.

3 years ago

olivier_bornand

1 Message

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100 Points

As everything else is synchronised between LR Classic and Lightroom CC, It seems very surprising that there is no connection in both direction for keywords. I really hope that this problem will be solved very soon. It seems that many people are, as I am, waiting for that !Many thanks , Olivier

2 years ago

olivier_guilloteaux

176 Messages

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3.7K Points

it seems to be totally deliberate. And one champion explains no more information will ever be synchronize from Classic to the cloud.

Go for C1, succeed your cloud by yourself

2 years ago

John_R_Ellis

Champion

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5.6K Messages

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98.3K Points

Right, a ccording to Victoria Bampton (Lightroom Queen), who is pretty well-plugged-in to Adobe, "no new sync functionality will be added to Classic (so keywords and collection hierarchy won’t sync)." Of course, they might change this decision if they get enough feedback from customers.

2 years ago

dan_hartford

522 Messages

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12.6K Points

3 years ago

This thread is quite confusing. Is there an Adobe document someplace that explains this in all its permutations?

However, this may explain why some of my keyworded images from LR Classic show Keywords in LR/CC and some do not. And, that explanation - according to this thread - is that some of my synced images have metadata written back to the image file and some don't - which is entirely possible.

I just took one of my CR2 RAW files which did not show any keywords in LR/CC and saved the metadata to an XMP file in LR Classic. Indeed, the keywords did not appear in LR/CC desktop or LR Web. However, an DNG image with saved metadata does show Keywords in both LR/CC Desktop and LR/CC Web but changes made to keywords in classic do not migrate to the cloud.

I think I need another computer to help me understand this logic which is quite inconsistent. Given Adobe's justification of no folders being "why should you care what folder something is in as long as you can find it:" - I'm surprised that they would give us a situation where you have to know the underlying file type in order to know how the system will work. I'm hoping that is a bug and not a design feature.

urs_blickenstorfer

1 Message

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260 Points

3 years ago

It's a real shame, I have thousands of tags done in LR Classic - if I can't use them in CC this is pretty worthless for me. Any comments from Adobe??

John_R_Ellis

Champion

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5.6K Messages

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98.3K Points

3 years ago

According to Victoria Bampton (Lightroom Queen), who is pretty well-plugged-in to Adobe, "no new sync functionality will be added to Classic (so keywords and collection hierarchy won’t sync)."

Sven

116 Messages

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2.6K Points

So they want us to move away from Adobe. Sad.

3 years ago

joachim_ganser

3 Messages

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124 Points

I just feel in the same way.

3 years ago

peter_obermeier_5n1m1dvgiycd0

310 Messages

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5.4K Points

3 years ago

Hi John, do you think Classic will be obsolet in some time? And is Adobe is implementing all Classic Feature into LR Mobile aka LR CC ?

John_R_Ellis

Champion

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5.6K Messages

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98.3K Points

Leading questions! Though I have (strong) opinions on all this, I recommend reading Bampton's recent blog posts: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/blog/. In my own opinion, Adobe has for several years pared back investment in desktop LR, putting in the bare minimum to maintain desktop LR's revenue stream. I don't see that changing.

3 years ago

tony_merritt

4 Messages

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252 Points

3 years ago

It is disappointing to learn that keyword syncing with Lightroom Mobile only works with the less feature-rich Lightroom CC and not with Lightroom Classic CC. I hope Adobe reconsiders and adds that functionality to Classic. It should've been added at introduction of Mobile.

jao_van_de_lagemaat

263 Messages

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6.2K Points

3 years ago

I understand one of the main reasons for this is that Adobe changed to a flat keyword hierarchy in Lightroom CC while Lightroom Classic has nested keywords (you know like Europe -> Iceland -> Reykjavik -> opera house). Lightroom CC cannot do any of that and likely will never gain this capability as apparently it is too hard for the typical user to use. Most of my keywords are hierarchical and I can't see a flat hierarchy working well for me.

lewis_craik

33 Messages

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1.1K Points

3 years ago

I have wasted many hours keywording images on Lightroom CC, only to find that they haven't synced back to Lightroom Classic CC. I was excited about Lightroom CC, as I thought it would be really useful for when I'm out on the road I would be able to do all my processing on my laptop, then sync everything back to my main editing machine when I got home. It sort of half works, which is disappointing.

Victoria_Bampton_Lightroom_Queen

Champion

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6.3K Messages

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107.8K Points

Let me ask a question Lewis... what features is Lightroom CC desktop that you'd need before you could move over from Lightroom Classic?

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

3 years ago

karl_g_nter_w_nsch

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

Really? You need to ask? Lightroom CC has almost none of the functionality needed to replace Lightroom Classic and it mandates use of the cloud for the RAW images, something that is impossible for most because of bandwidth constraints - I have the fastest internet connection available in the street where I live, to upload a single RAW image takes minutes (and they aren’t that big). My mobile plan is expensive and is capped at 200 MB/month - any mobile use of original RAW images is out of the question.

But for those asking here the killer of the new dumbed down Lightroom CC would be the lack of hierarchical keywords!

3 years ago

Victoria_Bampton_Lightroom_Queen

Champion

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6.3K Messages

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107.8K Points

Thanks Karl. I'm well aware that it doesn't have most of the features - I was looking to understand your priorities and workflow, because you obviously like the idea of cloud computing.

The mobile CC app doesn't have hierarchical keywords either, but that was ok for your hours of keywording? How did you end up working around that one?

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

3 years ago

karl_g_nter_w_nsch

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

I was answering your question more genericly, I myself didn’t spent as much time on keywords in LR on my mobile device in the end (unlike the guy you responded to). Still I was pissed that I have spent time on a lost cause, LR CC has a bug if it even allows keyword entry for images where it knows not to sync them back!

I do use a combination of hierarchical and non hierarchical keywords, so even to have those non hierarchical ones sync back would have been helpful for me. But it’s a major bug to even give the impression that you can keyword for smart previews originating from LR Classic. I am a software developer myself and if I were to be given the task to implement a feature like that then I would have to make it work for all input data or at the very least prevent it’s use when it’s not feasible to work.

And the sorry excuse of “LR CC users don’t understand hierarchical keywords” doesn’t work, if LR CC is ever to get to replace LR Classic then it must provide these as well!

3 years ago

Victoria_Bampton_Lightroom_Queen

Champion

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6.3K Messages

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107.8K Points

Ah thanks Karl, I didn't spot that you weren't Lewis!

I do agree that Adobe's communication on the lack of keyword sync with Classic has left a lot to be desired, and I think we'll see more of these issues crop up as the gap starts to widen, with more features being added to the mobile apps without being synced back to Classic.

In Adobe's mind, the LRCC mobile apps are intended to sync with the LRCC desktop apps from this time on. They didn't remove the existing sync functionality from Classic, but they didn't add new keyword sync functionality to Classic either. They are trying to separate the two different mindsets (desktop based vs cloud sync), because trying to shoehorn cloud sync into a desktop-focused app just doesn't work well. I'm not going to comment on the rights or wrongs of those decisions, but that's what they're thinking.

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

3 years ago

karl_g_nter_w_nsch

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

I think some things they have done are indefensible. Like the impression that you can enter keywords for smart previews in LR CC. LR CC knows these are originating from Lightroom Classic! If I were a photographer that makes money off his photos then I would have sent an invoice for the time wasted on keywording in LR CC!

For me - and many others - the cloud is only a supplement to the desktop version and there simply isn’t a way to make the cloud version viable, not today, not ever. I am often photographing in remote areas where I will not even have cell phone reception - and even if I had then having to manage battery charges due to the large draw of a mobile data connection would prohibit the use of the cloud anyway!

Somehow I think the “cloud is everything” developers seem to sit on high bandwidth backbone connections. Maybe Adobe should send their LR CC developers to the suburbs of smaller towns where there are more realistic bandwidth or even make them use mobile Edge connections (because they are commonly encountered as soon as you leave the urban environment) to see how well their apps scale...

3 years ago

Victoria_Bampton_Lightroom_Queen

Champion

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6.3K Messages

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107.8K Points

> you can enter keywords for smart previews in LR CC. LR CC knows these are originating from Lightroom Classic!

That would certainly be a good way of distinguishing them, although I imagine some people would still try to add keywords to originals added directly to the mobile apps and wonder why the keywords aren't appearing in Classic.

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

3 years ago

john_beardsworth

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

If I were a photographer that makes money off his photos then I would have sent an invoice for the time wasted on keywording in LR CC!

My Syncomatic plugin could recover some of that wasted time. Using LRCC, they could export copies of the images they were misled into keywording in Mobile or LRCC, then use the plugin in Lightroom "Classic" to sync the keywords from these temporary copies to the originals.

I sincerely wish I didn't have to suggest this workaround, and wish Adobe had put effort into implementing a proper mobile keywording solution.

3 years ago

lewis_craik

33 Messages

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1.1K Points

The features I'd miss from moving over to Lightroom CC full time are mainly around import and export:

Applying import preset
Applying metadata presets
Creating a second copy
Push collections
Export presets
KEYWORDING

That's before I get onto how much it would cost to have my whole archive in the cloud!

My way of working is that when I am on the road, I want to get my images processed, keyworded and uploaded as soon as possible. Then when I get back to base, I want them added into my main catalog.

When Lightroom CC was announced I was one of the few photographers who felt positive towards it - I thought I would be able to do away with my clunky workflow of creating and importing new catalogs each trip. However Adobe were ever so slightly off target - what could have been really helpful turns out to be not much use at all.

On my laptop I've got both CC to access the important pictures from my archive and Classic CC, to use my clunky workflow for new images.

3 years ago

karl_g_nter_w_nsch

29 Messages

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1.3K Points

Isn’t that the other way around? Classic CC for the archive and CC for the botched cloud?

3 years ago

lewis_craik

33 Messages

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1.1K Points

Not when I’m on the road using my laptop. I only need Classic CC on my main workstation. Prior to Lightroom CC cloud I couldn’t take my archive on the road easily.

3 years ago

evgeny_drablenkov

10 Messages

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270 Points

3 years ago

Hey Adobe! That about the keyword sync fixing ?

michel_davancens

6 Messages

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436 Points

3 years ago

I fully agree with Kaffeesegler. I have been using Lightroom since LR1 and I am really fond of this software. Lightroom CC seems to me a huge step forward and I try to use it on my laptop for more than 2 months. However key-words are a serious issue. Compared to Lightroom Classic Lightroom CC handles key words very poorly and above all sync between LR Classic and LR CC doesn't really work for key words. For me this is a huge drawback and prevents me tu use LR CC efficiently on my laptop. I hope that Adobe will change his mind and reconsider key words in LR CC.

yves_crausaz

921 Messages

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14.1K Points

3 years ago

Look hier : https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/auto-keywords-tool-for-pictures-sensei?topic-...