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6 Messages

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422 Points

Tue, Feb 11, 2020 9:51 PM

Solved

Lightroom Classic 9.2: Default Development Settings (ISO specific)

Lightroom Classic 9.2 seems to have removed the ability to make Default Development settings in the Develop Module for each camera and each ISO setting. I previously made Default Development settings with customized sharpening, Lens Correction and Noise reduction for each camera ISO, but now the only option is "Adobe Default" with no customization, or Camera settings. Is it now necessary to first make a Preset, and then set that separately as the default, with no specifics applied per ISO setting. It seems like a MAJOR step backwards..

Responses

Adobe Administrator

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8.1K Messages

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117.4K Points

8 months ago

 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

38 Messages

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1.1K Points

8 months ago

Camera based ISO dependent RAW profiles are now in the Presets TAB of Preferences.

I have just completed a somewhat thorough test of how this works. I have three different RAW default files for three different camera bodies set up in Prefs. In the top section under "Master", I have the preset I used to use for all files.

First, I removed the preset for "Apply During Import"

When I import RAW files, everything gets set correctly for the three camera bodies. This works as expected.

Next, I imported a group of images in RAW from these cameras along with a few JPG files from my cell phone. This time, everything gets set correctly for the three camera bodies but nothing at all is applied to the JPG files. The preset in "Master" on Prefs is not used.

Next, I put the old preset I used to use back into the "Apply During Import" and again imported a group of images in RAW from these cameras along with a few JPG files from my cell phone. This time, everything gets set to the old "Apply During Import" preset and ignores the RAW presets.

So, it seems that when I have both types of files, I need to run separate imports and remember to turn the "Apply During Import" preset on for cell images and off for RAW images.

Seems to me, this does not work in a way that is conducive to hasterning my workflow. I love the ISO dependent abilities. My suggestion to how this should work:

One Way: As I have a preset for "Master" and then 3 RAW setting for 3 camera bodies, when Importing, the RAW presets should be applied to RAW images from the 3 cameras and the preset in "Master" should be applied to anything not RAW from any camera, listed below or not. In addition, somewhere it needs to tell users that setting a develop preset in "Apply During Import" will override and RAW defaults!

Another Way: As I have a preset for "Master" and then 3 RAW setting for 3 camera bodies, when Importing, the RAW presets should be applied to RAW images from the 3 cameras and the preset in  "Apply During Import" should be applied to anything from any camera not listed below in Prefs.

The way it is now is not only confusing but upsets my workflow of Importing.

6 Messages

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422 Points

I totally agree. The previous approach was simple, and make it easy to assign specific default development for different ISOs with any camera you had (and even different ISOs, right from within the Develop module...now it is clumsy and crippled and nowhere as good as the previous implementation.

178 Messages

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3.7K Points

There definitely should be clear priorities for what gets applied. At least inform users that when Apply During Import preset is chosen while importing anything at the Preferences will not be used at all.

Champion

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174 Messages

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3.9K Points

@anssik, just as before, an import preset gets applied on top of defaults - so if the import preset assigns texture=40 and defaults assigns 20, then the value assigned will be 40. If when you created the import preset, you checked all the settings boxes, then it takes precedence on all settings. If in the import preset you only checked contrast and saturation, for example, then it only does on those - for raw files, all other settings will be at the raw defaults (whether assigned by preset, camera settings or Adobe default).

Note that the method of assigning defaults has changed, but their behavior hasn't - they have always just applied to raw files, whereas import presets have always been assigned to all files. (I'm not saying that you all  shouldn't discuss whether this should be the case; I just want to make sure everyone is clear on how it has been.)

133 Messages

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2.5K Points

How about returning the simple, fast, no hassle method of assigning a user development preset to an ISO. Keep both. Then fire the person who decided to remove a one click process and replace it with xml editing.

3 Messages

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124 Points

Agreed

Champion

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174 Messages

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3.9K Points

8 months ago

Champion

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174 Messages

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3.9K Points

Also, you'll have to delve into the preset XMP file to add varying of defaults by ISO - but it isn't that difficult. I discuss this in my Lightroom Classic 9.2 article (below the video).

6 Messages

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422 Points

A very good video, but I don't see how this is an improviement - the previous approach was simplier to teach (less confusion) and faster to do...and now there ISO customization is a significantly different process well beyond the average hobby photographer. I wish Adobe would have at least included the ISO Default options, even if they insisted on going with the newer approach overall.

Champion

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3.1K Messages

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56K Points

8 months ago

You can still add ISO-specific settings to the camera default, but you need to do this by editing the preset in a text editor. I hope that will change to a more convenient way in the future. What you need to do is the following: Scroll all the way down to the end of the preset and replace the last three lines with (for example) the following lines:
<crs:ISODependent>   
  <rdf:Seq>
     <rdf:li
      crs:ISO="400"
      crs:LuminanceSmoothing="0"
      crs:ColorNoiseReduction="0"
      />
     <rdf:li
      crs:ISO="1600"
      crs:LuminanceSmoothing="10"
      crs:ColorNoiseReduction="15"
      crs:SharpenEdgeMasking="10"
      />
     <rdf:li
      crs:ISO="6400"
      crs:LuminanceSmoothing="30"
      crs:ColorNoiseReduction="15"
      crs:SharpenEdgeMasking="25"
      crs:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness="100"
      crs:Blacks2012="-10"
      crs:Clarity2012="10"
      />
    </rdf:Seq>
   </crs:ISODependent>
  </rdf:Description>
 </rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

6 Messages

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422 Points

So what before was simple and fast, is now slow, labour intensive, and well beyond a basic Lr user. I teach Lr (and have for 8+ years), and one of my favorite things was unveiling to students in the last class how easy it was to customize import presets. This new implementation is well beyond 95% of my students, and a real disappointment...taking what was easy, and making it obtuse and obscure is NOT an improvement.

178 Messages

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3.7K Points

The new way looks more easy in the Preferences, so I guess decision makers at Adobe just went rushing for the decision to make the change without any user testing. We are the testers.

38 Messages

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1.1K Points

FWIW I have been teaching LR & PS since 2009 and I agree that most of my students (over 500 followers) cannot do this so I guess it is designed for advanced users. I am providing my students a default RAW Preset for use in preferences. The problem, as I stated above, is for users that do both JPG (from a phone) and RAW from their cameras. There is NO way to set this up so it just does what it needs for every import. Now, the way it is designed, we need to import the two types of files separately. Why not have the setting in prefs for "Master" be applied to any image that is not RAW or one of the specified camera defaults.

Champion

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3.1K Messages

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56K Points

Please note: Giving your students a default raw preset will only work if they do not update that preset in Lightroom with their own preferred settings. If they do, the ISO-specific part of the preset gets lost.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

Champion

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174 Messages

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3.9K Points

From @Eric Boutilier: "I teach Lr (and have for 8+ years), and one of my favorite things was unveiling to students in the last class how easy it was to customize import presets." 

Import presets work just as before. If you leave the Preferences setting at Master: Adobe Defaults, you're in the EXACT same place as with earlier versions of LR Classic.

5 Messages

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230 Points

8 months ago

Can't believe this function has taken such a big step backwards..  it was so simple before, to create a 'default' setting for each camera depending on ISO..  It was really handy being able to have default noise reduction applied without me having to go through each image manually...  (yes, its better to inspect each image in detail but in my line of photography, I don't have time to perfect images immediately, so a ball-park figure of noise reduction is good enough).

This new method doesn't simplify the process at all, in my opinion, and just adds a tonne of extra unnecessary steps to do LESS than we were able to before.. 

I know how to edit text files..  don't get me wrong, but I don't want to waste time HAVING to! 

6 Messages

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422 Points

I totally agree. I actually wish Adobe has a feature by feature comment form when they introduced (or changed) thing in their products. As a power user, it is frustrating to see a feature I both use and promote as a big advantage change and be down powered without any apparent way to provide direct feedback.

594 Messages

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11.2K Points

> and be down powered without any apparent way to provide direct feedback.

They don't care about feedback since a long time.

 

--
Patrick
www.ppphoto.fr
Hamburg ist der wahre Grund warum
Kompassnadeln nach Norden zeigen.

5 Messages

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262 Points

8 months ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom 9.2 update big disappointment re Develop presets by ISO.

I need to say this update is a disappointment. Prior to this release, for years, I have been using develop presets by camera by iso. They worked great.  With the release of L'room 9.2 puff they are now usless and no longer work.

Adobe has now given us the opportunity,  to learn how to write code in xmp files in order to get back our develop presets by iso.

Who thought of doing this?

Could Adobe not have made the new way an option and let the old way continue?

Could they have offered a wizard to create develop presets in 9.2 so we can get back our delevop presets by ISO?

Could they made a sample available that we could edit for our own particulary camera?

Of course they could have done all of the above, but they didn't even offer decent instructions.

Dear Adobe , I want to spend my time doing photogrpahy not learning how to write code in XMP files.

 

Please take a step back, soon,  and try to figure out how to fix this mess created by 9.2 and then please communicate it to  your customers.

133 Messages

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2.5K Points

8 months ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled user develop preset assigned to ISO missing, sabotage suspected.

I had develop presets assigned to ISOs 100-6400 for two camera bodies. It was simple to assign a preset to an ISO for a given camera. Now I have to know how to edit xml files to get the same result? Why REPLACE a function that works just fine and may have a substantial number of users when the new, more complex, difficult to use functionality could be ADDED?!

3 Messages

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130 Points

8 months ago

Very frustrated with the update! The previous method of setting default develop settings was WAY easier to understand, now it is all a crippled mess. I've been using LR for 8 years so I consider myself proficient with it, but I can't figure out how this new default setting system is supposed to work.

Champion

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2.2K Messages

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36.9K Points

Explained at the below link including how to create ISO dependent default develop settings by editing the XML file. IMHO it's a step backwards with the primary objective of adding this capability to the whole LR Ecosystem (LR desktop, Mobile, Web apps). My guess why ISO dependency wasn't carried over is because Adobe decision makers assumed most LR Cloudy users will never miss it. Just a WAG....

https://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/2020/02/how-to-customize-lightroom-classics-default-develop-settings-v...

5 Messages

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262 Points

That link leads to a very poor attempt by someone on how to edit xml to add in all ISO dependant settign for each ISO  For example Do we need to add an edit for every ISO our camera has or just the lowest and highest ISO.  The examples have no explanation for what they do and don't do. For someone who is a photographer , not a XMP coder this is difficult stuff to try and get back to what was working last week before 9.2
Adobe needs to step up to this and support their loyal Lroom classic users

560 Messages

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11.9K Points

Agreed - I must say that even as a tech enthusiast/ someone that understand complex formulas, it did take at least 30 mins for me to get it right. Not because my head is thick but it's just outside of my comfort zone. I still can't say I understand it fully but I do know how to edit the numbers to do what I want them to. For example, if you set crs:ISO="400" to zero then anything from 400 and below would be set to zero. If crs:ISO="1600" is set to 10 and your ISO is 800, then the resulting ISO reduction would be 5(somewhere in between). So really, the presets does a better job because it relatively and proportionally sets the ISO whereby before you had to input a setting for every step of ISO

Champion

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174 Messages

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3.9K Points

Correct - the assigned values for in-between ISOs are interpolated based on exposure values. ISO 800 is halfway between 400 and 1600, and therefore gets noise reduction halfway between 0 and 10.

Champion

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2.2K Messages

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36.9K Points

Correct - the assigned values for in-between ISOs are interpolated based on exposure values. ISO 800 is halfway between 400 and 1600, and therefore gets noise reduction halfway between 0 and 10.
From my own testing the Luminance and Color Noise Reduction controls are already ISO aware. The affect of these controls increases with the as shot ISO value. In general I've found using a "fixed" Luminance and Color Amount value of 25 works well for most ISO settings of 3200 and below with my Canon EOS cameras.

So using an interpolated value of ISO range settings will most likely produce a higher Amount setting than required. In addition underexposure and long shutter speeds will require higher Amount settings, which can only be determined by examination.  Then we have the effect of the Detail, Contrast, and Smoothness control settings to consider. More here:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/noise-reduction-presets?topic-reply-list[sett...

38 Messages

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1.1K Points

8 months ago

As I attempt to make this work for me and for my students, I noticed another confusion. In the Camera Raw section of Adobe Lightroom in the Roaming Appdata. There are two folders - Settings and Imported Settings (see image attached). Does anyone know how LR gets its preset data? Does it use Imported Settings or Settings or both and in which order... 

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

Both. Imported Settings is the location for presets added by the import context menu, and the Presets panel shows both folders' contents. I'm not sure order is ever relevant, as LR should update the IDs to prevent a clash, but maybe you can break things if you use Explorer/Finder to add files to one of the folders.

38 Messages

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1.1K Points

Appreciate the comment but unfortunately, it does not really answer the question adequately. Now that I need to use a text editor to create and maintain my presets, I need to understand exactly how LR uses the files in the two folders. Some of the file names are identical and some appear in only one of the two folders. Some of the presets I created using LR and then updated them in a text editor. Others a I created in a text editor and imported to LR in the presets panel. Now, the two folders seem like they have almost the same data. Can someone from Adobe answer this. I am not happy that I have to spend my time editing in a text editor but as I do, at least tell me how this works so I can make it work for me...

32 Messages

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676 Points

8 months ago

The new process required in Lightroom Classic 9.2 is an infuriating regression. 

15 Messages

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726 Points

8 months ago

This is the most baffling update to LR in many years. It's straight-up a removal of functionality without replacement; yes, editing .XML exists, but that's not a solution for most users. Even as someone who is by now well versed in hacking Adobe's programs ot bits to restore functionality, having to edit .XML for seven different cameras is hardly what I'd call convenient. The new 'function' doesn't do anything the previous version didn't do, it's just swapped a single button press for a menu and asks us to swamp our presets tab with settings for each camera.
The fact the update didn't at the very least automatically generate new import preset files with our old settings is really, really insulting. So even if you like the new method and want to go ahead with it, you've still got to go set up your defaults for each camera again.

It is plain pig-headed arrogance of Adobe to think that their arbitrary defaults would not just be preferable to our own defaults, but so preferable that our own defaults should be removed without consulting users.

It's nonsense like this that is why Capture One's userbase has doubled in the last year. I'm sick of Adobe's insulting updates. I've never seen a software developer go so out of its way to insult its customers.


143 Messages

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2.9K Points

8 months ago

How is anyone now meant to believe that there is a serious team behind ongoing LR's development?

Adobe Administrator

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8.1K Messages

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117.4K Points

4 months ago

Please check out the ISO Dependent Preset functionality released in the June 2020 edition of Lightroom Classic. https://theblog.adobe.com/june-photography-releases/
Details here: https://theblog.adobe.com/streamline-edits-with-the-improved-raw-defaults/
 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

5 Messages

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262 Points

4 months ago

Rikk this is great news do you know where I can find instructions to do ISO dependent presets in the new L'room release?
The links you sent tell me what Lightroom can do with develop presets but it doesn't tell me how to create them. It says we no longer need a photo for each ISO setting.
Hopefully there  are text instructions from Adobe or a video that tell us how to set the up

5 Messages

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262 Points

Awesome that link is a good start. Thanks Jerry