todd_shaner_6660895's profile
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Tue, Mar 16, 2021 9:05 PM

Lightroom Classic: 10.2 Grain Effects Render Incorrectly In Develop Module

The Develop module no longer properly renders the Grain Effect settings in LrC 10.2, which appear much more pronounced and correct in the Library module and exported files. I tested with GPU enabled and disabled with LrC restarted and the issue persists on my Windows 10 system.

The below screenshots are with LrC 10.2 using Grain settings Amount 100, Size 50, and Roughness 100.

Responses

25 Messages

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494 Points

1 m ago

Have you tried comparing the Library and Develop view at 100%.

I can reproduce what you have described while at Fit view which for Nikon D850 NEFs is a zoom level of 36.7%. When I increase the zoom level (using the slider in the Library toolbar) to around 60% and greater any difference between Library and Develop is not visible.

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Yes, at 60% and higher zoom view the Library and Develop previews look near identical. With LrC 10.0 and earlier versions even the Develop Fit zoom view looked identical so something has changed with LrC 10.2.

The Library module preview looks identical to the export image file at matching Zoom/Resize settings. For example at 50 % zoom view the Library preview looks identical to a 50% 'Resize to Fit' export file. We need this capability in the Develop module since that is where we adjust the Grain Effect settings (i.e. visual feedback).

20 Messages

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608 Points

1 m ago

Can also reproduce the same, grain is not rendered correctly in develop when in fit, zoomed in works fine. Win 10 20H2 x64, LrC 10.2, 4K display 150% scaling, tested with GPU ON and OFF, Smart Previews disabled. Please consider issuing a 10.2.1 hotfix for this. Otherwise with how the things have been going, next 10.x update might fix more bugs and break something else from the main/critical functionality. This way we'll at least get a proper relatively stable fallback version with the most recent new features (10.2 looks like a good candidate for this so far, except this issue). It's getting frustrating being stuck in this loop (2 bugs down, 3 new ones pop up, rollback as workaround/etc). As a suggestion to the test/dev team: consider adding automated testing for develop mode (and maybe library Loupe mode) to validate on-screen render and export results against reference images to cover all develop tools. This could benefit both devs and users a lot. Or at least consider adding a policy of thoroughly checking functionality of the develop tool across modules after something has been tweaked and fixed in it.

(edited)

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1 m ago

In Preferences > Performance, is Prefer smart previews for editing turned on or off?

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

20 Messages

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608 Points

Smart Previews turned off

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My example uses the full-size 6000x4000px original photo with Use Smart Previews Preferences setting turned off.

5 Messages

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94 Points

1 m ago

I think I'm having an issue with the way noise/grain is being rendered in the editing view on my images (.jpg)

When switching between photos, the correct grain is being rendered for a split second before the full photo loads with apparent incorrect grain values. The fully loaded image seems to be rendering a de-noised version, showing little noise even when setting the grain slider to 100. Seems to have started happening after the new update.

(M1 MacBook)

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Lightroom Desktop: Bug with grain/noise?

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Please go to Help>System Info… and get us the exact installed version number of your software. 

Is it possible for you to record and post a video showing the change?

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

5 Messages

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94 Points

@Rikk 

This only happens on my Mac after the new update.

My windows 10 version has not been updated yet and doesn't have the same issue. I've set the grain to 100 which should show significant grain, but it appears to de-noise aggressively. 

I've compared the grain rendering between the Mac and PC and it shows a clear difference. I've attached the logs below and a link to a screen recording on the Mac. (drive link at the bottom)

Lightroom version: 4.2 MAS arm64 [ 20210301-0713-6cdd6a3 ] (Mar  2 2021)

NGL Version: 1.24.0.5

WF Version: 3.2 88d676d

Operating system: macOS

OS Version: macOS 11.2.3 (20D91)

Application architecture: arm64

Computer model: MacBookAir10,1 / Apple M1

Logical processor count: 8

Processor speed: 0.0 GHz

Built-in memory: 8,192.0 MB

Real memory available to Lightroom: 8,192.0 MB

Real memory used by Lightroom: 228.8 MB (2.7%)

Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 403,302.5 MB

Memory cache size: 917.0 MB

Internal Camera Raw version: 13.2 [ 738 ]

Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5

Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2

Camera Raw virtual memory: 523MB / 4095MB (12%)

Camera Raw real memory: 0MB / 8192MB (0%)

Displays: 1) 2880x1800

Graphics Processor Info: Metal: Apple M1 - 5.5 GB

Graphics Processor Detail: loaded: Yes, supported: Yes, compute: Yes, init: I4_GPU3, hard: success, soft: success, wl: Yes, bl: No

OS Media Capability: true

Application Folder: /Applications

Settings Folder: /Users/lawrence/Library/Containers/com.adobe.mas.lightroomCC/Data/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Lightroom CC

Library Folder: /Users/lawrence/Pictures/Lightroom Library.lrlibrary

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zanzmyx0sKlQRR9I1FEOldQCxY26pArB?usp=sharing

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This thread is being merged into an existing authoritative thread for better tracking and response. Please review the official answer (if any) in the second post on the thread for more information. 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

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94 Points

Just to confirm, I am using Lightroom CC and the main thread is Lightroom Classic. So it appears to be an issue on both versions with the new update.

Also, I am mostly using .jpg format and the main thread is raw, so it suggest it's an issue not restricted to one particular image format.

(edited)

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And Camera Raw is also affected

Adobe Photography Products

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1 m ago

Todd, 

Is the result the same in Camera Raw?

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@Rikk

Using the same settings as in my screenshots above the file inside ACR 13.2 looks the same as LrC 10.2 Develop module. After opening the file from ACR into PS it matches the rendering observed in the LrC 10.2 Library module. ACR 13.2 is exhibiting the same issue with Grain Effect preview rendering as LrC10.2.

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That tells me it is likely a Camera Raw bug.  I will get it logged. 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

2 Messages

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74 Points

Same here with me. I'm currently in the process of upgrading from Lightroom 6.14 to Lightroom Classic 10.2 on a 7 Day free trial. Once it was installed and everything updated, everything seemed fine. All my presets worked after changing them to .xmp, the catalog was successfully updated and it was a smooth transition. However, I immediately spotted that the Develop module FIT mode was way off compared to the Library. It's annoying because when you are trying to set the grain amount, you want to be able to see it correctly to judge the amount. I was having to add grain in Develop, jump to Library to see it rendered and determine if it was right, then back again to try and guess another amount.

To determine if I was going crazy, I opened LR6 again and ran through the same process and everything was as it should be. The only work around I have found after reading pages of suggestions, is to install LRc 9.4. then everything works as it should. This isn't something that works for me though - I only did it out of curiosity - as the reason for updating is that I'm getting a new camera this week that has only been added in this new 10.2 update. I am also on a 7 day free trial, so timing is of the essence really as I don't want to lock myself into a new annual subscription for something that doesn't work as well as my previous version.

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"I am also on a 7 day free trial, so timing is of the essence really as I don't want to lock myself into a new annual subscription for something that doesn't work as well as my previous version."

I'm confident Adobe will fix this issue since it should be easy to identify what specific change in LrC 10.2 caused it. For now you can use the Quick Develop Grain Presets and/or create your own custom Develop presets with Grain settings  that you normally use. Granted it's not as "flexible" as using the controls directly, but it should help until Adobe fixes the issue. Just a suggestion.

2 Messages

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74 Points

Thank you for the suggestion. I know it's not the end of the world and I do have grain presets saved with varying degrees of strength etc. However, it must only be a temporary work around as it is an integral park of my workflow and you can't really judge the aesthetics of grain when you're zoomed in to 100% I find.

I'll stick with LrC 9.4 until my camera arrives sometime in the next week or so and then hopefully I can upgrade to 10.2.1 with a fix in place.

20 Messages

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608 Points

Thanks for logging it @Rikk , we'd be very grateful if you can push for a LrC_10.2.1/CR_13.2.1/LR_4.2.1 hotfix release, if possible.

(edited)

5 Messages

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134 Points

1 m ago

I'm having the same issues in Camera Raw 13.2. Grain is rendering strange. 

14 Messages

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200 Points

15 d ago

Is this the same issue that was presented on LR Classic 10.0.0 ??  If so, this bug has been around since the release of v10 back in October..  What's going on Adobe?

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The issue is not present in LrC 10.0.

14 Messages

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200 Points

Humm.. strange I have this grain issue and a thumbnail preview issue since v10.0.. it is present when using LR v10.x and MacOS Big Sur,  it was not present with LR 9.4..

Because of this bugs i'm still stock with LR 9.4

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/lightroom-classic/lightroom-classic-101-thumbnails-erratic-behavior-with-big-sur/5fd3a0afb5962575127fe16d

(edited)

8 Messages

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604 Points

2 d ago

Since updating to 10.2, I'm seeing the addition of what looks like grain or noise to my images when Zoom is set to anything EXCEPT "Fit" "Fill" or "100%." 

The problem goes away immediately if I hit "F" for full screen mode (even if I leave the zoom set at, for instance, 25%) or if I enter the Develop module. (This may be related to the way LR is now handling Standard previews and perhaps to the fix that was just implemented to the former color shift bug?)

A lot of my workflow relies on TIFFs of black and white film scans. These are the images where the problem is most apparent.

I'm running LR on macOS 11.2.3.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Lightroom Classic 10.2: Noise / Grain Appearing in Previews in Loupe

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This thread is being merged into an existing authoritative thread for better tracking and response. Please review the official answer (if any) in the second post on the thread for more information. 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

8 Messages

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604 Points

Thanks for merging threads, Rikk. One note / clarification: I originally thought that the issue I was seeing was unrelated to this thread as my images do NOT have any grain effect applied. That said, I can confirm that the particulars described above (Zoom over 50% "fixes" the problem) mirror what I'm seeing. IMO, what I'm seeing in the Develop Module or at a Zoom greater than 50% in the Loupe is the "correct" image; what I'm seeing in the Loupe under 50% zoom has additional grain added.

950 Messages

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14.3K Points

1 d ago

Bonjour même problème, et pas seulement limité au format .tif, ici exemple vidéo depuis un Raw de Olympus (.orf) (paramètres système sous la vidéo)

Version Lightroom Classic: 10.2 [ 202103041821-226a1211 ]
Licence: Creative Cloud
Paramètre de langue: fr
Système d'exploitation : Mac OS 10
Version : 10.16.0 [20D91]
Architecture de l'application : x64
Nombre de processeurs logiques: 6
Vitesse du processeur : 3.1 Ghz
Version SQLite: 3.34.0
Mémoire intégrée : 40 960.0 Mo
Mémoire réelle disponible pour Lightroom : 40 960.0 Mo
Mémoire réelle utilisée par Lightroom : 6 851.2 Mo (16.7%)
Mémoire virtuelle utilisée par Lightroom : 19 380.7 Mo
Taille de la mémoire cache : 1 377.4Mo
Version interne de Camera Raw: 13.2 [ 738 ]
Nombre maximal de liens utilisé par Camera Raw  : 4
Optimisation SIMD de Camera Raw : SSE2,AVX,AVX2
Mémoire virtuelle de Camera Raw: 1762Mo / 20479Mo (8%)
Mémoire réelle de Camera Raw: 1830Mo / 40960Mo (4%)
Affichages : 1) 5120x2880

Informations relatives au processeur graphique : 
Metal: AMD Radeon Pro 575X

Dossier de l'application : /Applications/Adobe Lightroom Classic
Chemin d'accès à la bibliothèque : /Users/yvesalexiscrausaz/Pictures/Lightroom Classic/Yves Catalogue principal/Yves Catalogue principal-v10.lrcat
Dossier des paramètres : /Users/yvesalexiscrausaz/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Lightroom

Modules installés : 
1) Adobe Stock
2) DxO PhotoLab 2
3) DxO PhotoLab 2 Importer
4) Flickr
5) HDR Efex Pro 2

Marqueurs Config.lua: None

AudioDeviceIOBlockSize: 512
AudioDeviceName: $$$/dvaaudiodevice/SystemDefaultAndEffectiveDeviceName=System Default (Sortie intégrée)#{comment}DVAAU-4201250: Open the audio hardware preferences page.
AudioDeviceNumberOfChannels: 2
AudioDeviceSampleRate: 44100
Build: LR5x77
CoreImage: true
GL_ACCUM_ALPHA_BITS: 0
GL_ACCUM_BLUE_BITS: 0
GL_ACCUM_GREEN_BITS: 0
GL_ACCUM_RED_BITS: 0
GL_ALPHA_BITS: 8
GL_BLUE_BITS: 8
GL_DEPTH_BITS: 24
GL_GREEN_BITS: 8
GL_MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 8
GL_MAX_VIEWPORT_DIMS: 16384,16384
GL_RED_BITS: 8
GL_RENDERER: AMD Radeon Pro 575X OpenGL Engine
GL_SHADING_LANGUAGE_VERSION: 1.20
GL_STENCIL_BITS: 8
GL_VENDOR: ATI Technologies Inc.
GL_VERSION: 2.1 ATI-4.2.15
OGLEnabled: true
GL_EXTENSIONS: GL_ARB_color_buffer_float GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float GL_ARB_depth_clamp GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex GL_ARB_draw_instanced GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow GL_ARB_fragment_shader GL_ARB_framebuffer_object GL_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB GL_ARB_half_float_pixel GL_ARB_half_float_vertex GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_instanced_arrays GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_provoking_vertex GL_ARB_seamless_cube_map GL_ARB_shader_objects GL_ARB_shader_texture_lod GL_ARB_shading_language_100 GL_ARB_shadow GL_ARB_shadow_ambient GL_ARB_sync GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_float GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_texture_rg GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_vertex_array_bgra GL_ARB_vertex_blend GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_vertex_shader GL_ARB_window_pos GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_bindable_uniform GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_debug_label GL_EXT_debug_marker GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test GL_EXT_draw_buffers2 GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample GL_EXT_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB GL_EXT_geometry_shader4 GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters GL_EXT_gpu_shader4 GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil GL_EXT_packed_float GL_EXT_provoking_vertex GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_two_side GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture_array GL_EXT_texture_compression_dxt1 GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_integer GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp GL_EXT_texture_rectangle GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent GL_EXT_texture_sRGB GL_EXT_texture_sRGB_decode GL_EXT_timer_query GL_EXT_transform_feedback GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra GL_APPLE_aux_depth_stencil GL_APPLE_client_storage GL_APPLE_element_array GL_APPLE_fence GL_APPLE_float_pixels GL_APPLE_flush_buffer_range GL_APPLE_flush_render GL_APPLE_object_purgeable GL_APPLE_packed_pixels GL_APPLE_pixel_buffer GL_APPLE_rgb_422 GL_APPLE_row_bytes GL_APPLE_specular_vector GL_APPLE_texture_range GL_APPLE_transform_hint GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object GL_APPLE_vertex_array_range GL_APPLE_vertex_point_size GL_APPLE_vertex_program_evaluators GL_APPLE_ycbcr_422 GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate GL_ATI_blend_weighted_minmax GL_ATI_separate_stencil GL_ATI_texture_compression_3dc GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3 GL_ATI_texture_float GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_conditional_render GL_NV_depth_clamp GL_NV_fog_distance GL_NV_light_max_exponent GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_barrier GL_SGI_color_matrix GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_lod