tk_images's profile

513 Messages

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11.1K Points

Fri, May 6, 2011 7:47 AM

8

Lightroom: Avoid Status Messages on Images

The "Loading Image..." indicator and confirmation messages regarding history step "Undo(s)" and "Redo(s)" are displayed pretty prominently on the image.

I would love if I had the option to make them less obtrusive, for instance like the small "Before" indicator that is shown when one chooses to view an older version ("\" key in the Develop module).

I switched of the "Loading Image..." indicator but do not have this option for the history undo/redo feedback. Sometimes a key part of the image I want to observe by successive undo-redos is obstructed by the feedback message and I only see it with a delay. This makes it harder to directly judge whether the last edit step was an improvement.

I practically always have the top bar (F5) collapsed so wouldn't see status/feedback messages there either (and other panels may or may not be in view) but perhaps something along the lines of the compact progress bar that shows even when the top panel is collapsed or a less obtrusive way of displaying messages analogue to the "Before" indicator would do the trick of providing feedback, yet in a way that always allows a full view on the image?

Responses

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

10 y ago

Personally, I'd go along with avoiding anything and everything on my images, including the info overlay. I consider image space to be sacred - find a place in the UI for info & statuses... I suppose that would be a problem in a true full-screen mode, which we don't have yet anyway, but in this case, I would use it only in dual monitor mode anyway so the info & statuses would always be in other monitor.

144 Messages

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3.7K Points

10 y ago

A workaround of using the \ key is relatively easier, and faster than undo/redo. RIght-click on the previous history step and set it to the Before state, then use the backslash key to jump back and forth.

Personally, I like having most of those messages right on the image, because that's usually where my eyes are, and most of the time I want to see them. (I too have turned off the Loading indicator, but I'm usually happy to see those messages -- especially for Undo, where I want confirmation that I've undone the thing I intended to undo.

7 Messages

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200 Points

10 y ago

"When I'm driving nails, I don't want to think about my hammer. I just want to drive nails. If I'm thinking about my hammer, I am no longer driving nails."

With regard to the usefulness of a tool in assisting work, I like what Rob Cole says about image space being sacred. One of my only gripes with Lightroom (but believe me, it's a legitimate gripe) is that the "Loupe" view permits the intrusion of flag status notifications. You wouldn't permit anything in the way of a physical loupe - so why is there extraneous information in the way of my virtual loupe?

I work quickly by engaging the CAPS LOCK key and using P, X, and U to make first-pass edit decisions and to propel me through the shoot. But the Flag Status notification message, which displays in my sacred space, is slowing me down considerably. I have approximated a 1.5 second interval between the time the notification is displayed and the time the notification disappears.

Making me wait 1.5 seconds to see the entirety of my photograph is simply inexcusable. Adobe Lightroom engineers have unfortunately decided that irreplaceable seconds from my life must be spent waiting to view the entirety of my next image. This becomes hours, times every exposure I've ever imported into Lightroom

This may not be a problem on slower machines where the image preview may take just as long to load. But I bought a brand new 17'' macbook pro to overcome my hardware bottleneck and save seconds, minutes, hours - only to encounter another bottleneck (one that I cannot throw money at) built into Lightroom.

An interface that calls attention to itself is a hammer that interrupts me from driving a nail.

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

10 y ago

I am happy with the bezel notifications as they are - apart from the File is Missing warning which I'd want to switch off in Library / Slideshow views when I'm showing people some work and the originals are offline. If a preference for all bezels is the price to pay for suppressing this Missing message, great. Otherwise, people need these notifications to guard against their own stupidity and tiredness and I'd be against an option.

7 Messages

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200 Points

10 y ago

John, you are exactly right - I believe that a user interface is incomplete without confirmation of input or the completion of a task. People (myself included) need these notifications. After reading your input, I want to agree that I would be against removing them.

What I would propose instead is that they be moved to an area of the screen better suited for notifications than the image loupe itself. I consider the importance of an uninterrupted look at my work just as crucial as the importance of realtime data indicating what kind of work I'm doing.

I know that when I import or export images, a progress meter replaces my identify plate. I am accustomed to looking to that region for data regarding ongoing operations. Perhaps, rather than to scatter the other notifications in various places, we could consolidate them in one place. Then users would know to look to a certain region for status updates and realtime data, and it would be unnecessary to interrupt the image (which is the most important thing on the screen) with additional information.

Believe me, I feel your pain on the FILE IS MISSING warning!

513 Messages

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11.1K Points

10 y ago

In response to those opposing the feature request: Who really knows what the "true" nature of LR is? I've read one of the key designers Phil Clevenger state that focus on the image (e.g., by making the non-image area as non-intrusive as possible) was a key design goal. I feel that status message on the image go against that philosophy. Others' milage may vary.

Some are bugged by the "File is missing" warning, others think it is essential. I can see both viewpoints. As Rob put it: "If everybody liked things the same way, there would be no "Preferences".

How about letting people decide for themselves how stupid and tired they are? If just pressed Ctrl-Z for "undo", I don't need to be told that I've just done so again. A bit of feedback that the operation took place is appreciated but it should not interfere with focusing on the image. Perhaps an image frame could briefly flash? Or, as I proposed earlier, just move the status message to a peripheral area.

I don't understand the general resistance against further options. I'm not arguing that people that like the current behaviour should adapt to another one. AFAIC, the current behaviour could be retained. But why not allow others to experience LR as they regard it as optimal?

Yes, there is always the argument about limited resources and prioritising development effort, but I think not voting for a feature request should be sufficient. Why additionally argue against it with comments, if you'd lose nothing by not making use of the new option?

If a feature request forces something on somebody they don't like, yes, it makes sense to argue against it. But if the new behaviour would not be mandatory, what's not to like?

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

10 y ago

"Some are bugged by the "File is missing" warning, others think it is essential. "

Sorry, those who understand what it means understand its importance, while those who use Lightroom to show work to others want to switch it off when doing so. No need to get mired in a YMMV mush over this one!

Where is this "general resistance against further options"? It is specific to the idea. Not all of us think it's good for the Lightroom community to smother every single thread with the sound of our own voice. In most cases we click to "Like" an idea, or choose not to do so, without feeling impelled to contribute any further wisdom. But in other cases choosing not to click is insufficient to express that (from a mix of personal opinion and experience from training, coaching and other direct contact with other users) one considers an idea to be generally damaging. This is one such case, if not hugely so, and not once one looks at the wider picture.

It strikes me that there are two ways forward with your basic idea. Firstly, make the bezel more transparent so it's less obvious and less liable to inspire objections such as yours. Secondly, allow the user to switch off these messages for the current Lightroom session - but not as a sticky preference. The messages are important to guard against our own stupidity and tiredness.

John

513 Messages

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11.1K Points

10 y ago

John, you wrote: "Sorry, those who understand what it means understand its importance, while those who use Lightroom to show work to others want to switch it off when doing so. No need to get mired in a YMMV mush over this one! ": I don't understand your response. I simply picked the "Missing image" note as an example for how views on importance differ. I could have picked another one. I would prefer to be able to switch it off, but for me personally it is not a big deal. Nevertheless, if someone else says it is important/essential to them, I respect it and tolerate it. I would allow them to plea for an option to have it turned off. It wouldn't hurt me one iota.

"...one considers an idea to be generally damaging. This is one such case, if not hugely so, and not once one looks at the wider picture. ": I completely disagree. If you want to have the status images in your face, just don't use the option. No damage done. LR users are adults. If they chose to relegate the status messages to a less obstrusive place and have a subsequent problem, they are responsible for it. Users can hide the toolbar with "T" and then forget how to bring it back. Does that make hiding the toolbar a "damaging/dangerous" feature? I don't think so. I'd hate to see any remnants of it. I'm adult enough to use the "T" shortcut. If things go wrong, there are user 2 user forums (Just post a "How can I make the status message to be in my face again?" question).

"Firstly, make the bezel more transparent so it's less obvious and less liable to inspire objections such as yours. ": Not a solution that works for me.

"...allow the user to switch off these messages for the current Lightroom session - but not as a sticky preference.": Of course it needs to be a sticky preference. Telling me/us that we are not adult enough to suffer the consequences, is very patronising. No offence, but I don't need anyone to tell me what is good for me and what isn't. If other people's views differ, they can choose different preferences but no one should tell anyone else what they should be allowed to do and what not. Otherwise the the "point edit" mode for the tone curve should be removed because surely only the parameterised control is safe enough for stupid and tired users.

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

10 y ago

Views just don't differ on the Missing Image notification. Most of the time it is just the same as all the other messages - important to guard users against their own stupidity and tiredness, and so in-your-face that people notice it. But at specific times - particularly when showing work to someone using Lightroom and when originals are deliberately offline - it looks plain unprofessional. No need to equivocate.

Parallels with other features are never exact enough to hold up for long, and I'm sorry if you think it patronising but Lightroom's design ethos is normative, encouraging the user to work in a methodical fashion and guarding against common mistakes. A simple session-based setting (eg a cross on the message's top corner) strikes me as the ideal balance.

John

513 Messages

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11.1K Points

10 y ago

"But at specific times - particularly when showing work to someone using Lightroom and when originals are deliberately offline - it looks plain unprofessional. ": So would you be happy if I said "OK, you can turn the message off but only on a per image basis and the setting will be lost for the next session because that's the only way I feel that you are sufficiently protected from your own stupidity and tiredness"?

People just have different views of what one needs to equivocate about and what not.

I would also have to respect if Adobe said "We need to protect our users and hence cannot provide such an option". But I don't quite understand why another user (such as you) would be so concerned about the well-being of other users to the extend of denying them the features they specifically ask for.

1.3K Messages

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22.5K Points

10 y ago

Here you go again! That per image stuff is about as relevant as your parallels with other features....

"But I don't quite understand why another user (such as you) would be so concerned about the well-being of other users to the extend of denying them the features they specifically ask for. "
I've explained why I consider that your proposal is something I wouldn't want and why I think it is generally undesirable. I don't need to understand why you propose it, just take it at face value.

7 Messages

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200 Points

10 y ago

John, I appreciate your position in passionate defense of new or inexperienced users.

I think it's fair to say that if you have engaged the Caps Lock key with the purpose of using the P,X, and U keys as quickly as possible, then you are well aware of the function of each of these keys and you are willing to accept the consequences associated with pressing them. You already "know" that P will select an image and X will reject it. You do not need to be reminded for a period of 1.5 seconds times four thousand, or whatever your take for the day is.

(Incidentally, causing me to wait 1.5 seconds times four thousand images results in a loss of over 1.5 hours waiting to see my image unobstructed.)

While it is true that care must be taken to ensure beginning users don't become overwhelmed with the Lightroom interface, it is also true that professionals working under a deadline do not want to be encumbered by time-consuming safeguards and training wheels.

I do not propose to completely eliminate the niceties which prevent inexperienced users from becoming frustrated with Lightroom any more than I propose to cheat experienced users out of an interface that adapts as their workflow reaches maximum efficiency.

I do propose that we engage in a worthwhile discussion of how real-time data is best presented in Lightroom for both new and experienced users with regard to this sentence in TK's original post, which states "I’m confident that there must be more who don't want distractions on the image."

27 Messages

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1.3K Points

10 y ago

Hi all,

I'm with you regarding the "File missing" message which I find inacceptable intrusive.
I often use my laptop to rate pictures while I'm not connected to the original photos, and the "File missing" message prevents me from having a clear view of the picture.
Deactivation of this message should surely be a preset option, especially as in Lr2 this message appeard only for those pictures where I zoomed in at least once.

I very much like the feedback on any other command executed in Lr, so far it has not slowed down my workflow. But I can understand that it might be the case for others. I'm a great fan of user preferences, and the more I can customize the better.

My workaround to get rid of the unwanted messages so far:
I've create a preset in the "slideshow" module where I can view the entire picture without the "File missing" message and still add ratings. It even works with the "auto-forward" option (while CAPS lock is active). Also P, X and U are working.

And if you run the slideshow (and set it to pause mode to allow for individual forward speed) all the options mentioned above work even without the feedback-message.

Still, this really is only a workaround, and in terms of a professional software as Lr there really should be a user-setting.

27 Messages

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1.3K Points

10 y ago

Here is link to a related topic regarding the "File missing" message:
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...