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1 Message

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210 Points

Mon, Jun 10, 2013 1:01 PM

Solved

Lightroom 5 - Output Sharpening and Noise Reduction not working.

Just installed Lightroom 5 final. Output Sharpening and Noise Reduction does not work. Whole story here:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1229132

Responses

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

7 years ago

Marcin H. F.:

I tried to duplicate your Toning NR settings from the history recorded in the JPG you provided.

Below is a side-by-side showing my exported JPG plus the view in Develop. My exported JPG has NR applied. In an attempt to sharpen any noise that wasn't removed, I maxed out the export sharpening to Glossy / High, so the blemishes are slightly more obvious in my exported file but the underlying noise appears to have been completely removed, just like in Develop.

My Library view shows NR applied, too. What happens if you recompute standard and 1:1 previews of the image?

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

What computer and OS are you running LR on? I'm running LR 5.3 on a Windows 7 computer.

8 Messages

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132 Points

I'm also running LR 5.3 on a Windows 7. Hmmm I'm running the trail version, so maybe that's it... maybe there are some limitations...

Sorry I'm new to this so I'm not sure I exactly understand "recompute" do you mean "export"?

8 Messages

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132 Points

I'm wondering if I have some kind of setting on or off (that shouldn't be on or off), since I'm not seeing the NR in the Library view... and the export is the same. (I do see the other fixes like spot removal and black and white conversion).

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

You might try deleting your LR preferences file in case something is corrupted with that, and causing hiccups in LR.

You should exit LR then delete the .agprefs file indicated in item 1 of this article: http://kylenishioka.com/blog/2012/06/...

If you don't already know where your catalog is stored, then figure that out before deleting the preferences file. Item 1 of the blog post is about troubleshooting a catalog issue, so it says to start with a new blank catalog after deleting the preferences file. You are not trouble-shooting a corrupted catalog (at this point at least) so you want to open your existing catalog not start with a new one.

8 Messages

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132 Points

Thank you!

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

7 years ago

Since it's working for me and not for you, perhaps there is some other adjustment you made, like the blemish removal via the spotting tool, that is somehow causing an issue with NR in LR Exports.

You can test this by creating a virtual copy of this image, select the VC, then reset the spotting tool, or maybe just reset the entire photo--it should turn back to color, then redo the NR Lum=87, and then export from the reset VC and see if the NR is applied.

"Recomputing" (rebuiding) Previews is done in Library:

8 Messages

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132 Points

7 years ago

man... this is so weird, I'm really not getting something... Ok, I think I got it (:

So... This is what I did:

1. I did what you said, I built standard-sized previews using your instructions (I didn't know that the menu changes depending on whether your in library or development).

2. Then I tried to reset... but weird things started happening... it reseted to black and white, so I went into: Development->Set Default Settings... and chose "Restore Adobe Default Settings".

So that was probably the problem. Thank you so much for your help Steve!

All the best in the New Year!

p.s. oh, and the export with NR started working after the fixes I applied!

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

Sounds like something was corrupted somewhere. Glad you reset things and it works, now.

8 Messages

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132 Points

Yes, and if it stops working in the future, I will know (thanks to you) which setting to play around with.

Again, thank you Steve

5 Messages

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132 Points

7 years ago

Hi I am new to this site, but I am experiencing a very similar problem.

I just downloaded Lightroom version 5.4. When I switch from Develop mode to Library mode, my sharpening edits disappear. I also loose the sharpening when I export to jpeg.

Any suggestions?

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

Library module is notoriously soft compared to develop module (in fit view I mean, more at some some resize ratios than others.., but the 1:1 view should be similar to what you see in develop module at 1:1 - is it not?

And exports should be fully sharpened if you have output sharpening set to "Standard" (judge at 1:1 only).

Try cranking sharpening to max (and export) then set sharpening to zero (and export) then compare them at 1:1. If they are the same, then there is a bug for sure (Lr is dropping the sharpening), if they are different, then something else is going on - may still be a bug, but the characteristics really need to be nailed down.

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

7 years ago

Library module is notoriously soft compared to develop module - in fit view I mean, more at some some resize ratios than others.., but the 1:1 view should be very close to what you see in develop module at 1:1 - is it not?

And exports should be fully sharpened if you have output sharpening set to "Standard" (judge at 1:1 only).

Try this:
======
With output sharpening set to zero, crank sharpening to max (and export) then set sharpening to zero (and export) then compare the exports at 1:1. If they are the same, then there is a bug for sure (Lr is dropping the develop sharpening), if they are different, then something else is going on - may still be a bug, but the characteristics really need to be nailed down.

Also try this:
=========
Leave develop sharpening at zero, and repeat the experiment above *except* vary output sharpening from zero to max (instead of develop sharpening). The goal of this part is to determine whether output sharpening is having any effect whatsoever...

5 Messages

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132 Points

7 years ago

Thanks Rob for the speedy reply,

I did not have output sharpening checked at all when exporting. 1:1 is exactly the same in Develop and Library mode.

I think that fixed my problem. I am an amateur and do not have a lot of experience working with Lightroom. For future reference, is the output sharpening directly related to the develop sharpening? (Like one wont work without the other, or controls the other) or are they completely different ways to add sharpening?

Thank for the help though!

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

Good to hear Derek. For the context of this discussion you can think of output sharpening as being completely independent of develop sharpening. The idea is:

* sharpen only to the point that it looks good in develop module at 1:1 (but do not oversharpen), then
* use output sharpening in accordance with the actual output medium (e.g. screen versus paper) to *preserve* the sharpness that you see in develop module at 1:1 on the output medium.

In other words, Lr will output a slightly softer version if there is no output sharpening, so if you want sharp output, you need output sharpening too.

Although output sharpening is relatively subtle compared to develop sharpening, it is still a critical element of the process.

Cheers,
Rob

5 Messages

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132 Points

Thanks!

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

Judging from your fresh bug report, I'm gleaning the output sharpening was not a panacea for you?

But since most people are not having the problem you are, and Adobe hasn't chimed in recently whether they can reproduce problem or not, it would behoove you to determine for sure whether develop sharpening is being applied, or not, and whether output sharpening is being applied, or not.

Just claiming your exports are not as sharp as you expect will not garner much traction... - they/we have heard it before, a million times (because it's normal and a result of unrealistic albeit reasonably arrived-at expectations).

Know what I mean?

Put another way: HOW much sharpening was lost? - *all* of it, or just some of it. And you have to understand and state that all assessment was done at 1:1 otherwise everything else gets dismissed... - seriously: if you want a remedy, you have to play this game!

~R.

12 Messages

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174 Points

6 years ago

I'm sorry. Why is the issue marked as "solved"? I have spent MONTHs getting to grips with Lightroom and finally, I'm producing images that I'm happy with. I decide to export an image for some online feedback - and guess what? No sharpening or clarity local adjustments are translated into the export. No noise reduction is translated into the export. Essentially my work is lost on export.

I'm more than just a little annoyed. Lots of money and MONTHS of work, yet wholly unable export images and have them represented as presented in Lightroom?

I can find two versions of the current status:

1) Live with it, just export full size and use another tool to resize.

- Really? That's the "solution"?
- This means a loss of quality as sharpening is non-proportional.
- This means a loss of quality as noise reduction is all but "lost" as external tools are sharpening on the resize.
- How can it be that a major product developer - ONE YEAR after a bug has been identified - is happy to simply tell users "this product is the industry standard for RAW development, but your work is lost on export."

2) "Resolved"

- I'm using CC, so I'm always "up-to-date", as of this morning, this is NOT resolved.

So, Adobe, what's the status here?

Regards,

A disappointed and Angry Consumer.

4.5K Messages

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76.3K Points

6 years ago

Adobe thinks they've solved this particular problem, and for many of us - they have.

Begging the question - is it the same problem, or a similar but different one.

Have you found that exports (even a tiny bit) above 1/3 have noise reduction and/or sharpening applied, whereas those (even a tiny bit) below 1/3 size do not? If so, then it is the same problem, otherwise not.

If it's the same problem, then consider stating your operating system here, and the version of Lightroom (the part after the dot too).

If it's a similar but different problem, consider a new thread - it seems to me lots of Mac users are complaining of similar problem, but maybe Windows users are too - dunno.

PS - I'm just a poor user like you - not Adobe..

12 Messages

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174 Points

6 years ago

Hi Rob,

Really kind of you to weigh in. Thank you.

I've just tried it out. Definitely the same problem. Less than 1/3, no sharpening, no local clarity adjustments, no noise reduction. Full size export, adjustments applied but "lost" when re-sizing in external applications (ie. sharpness is lost during the resize process).

Lightroom 5.3 (using CC, so always up-to-date).

Result: Problem is not "solved".

32 Messages

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820 Points

6 years ago

Aaaaaaah! Lightroom 5.3!
Well, try Lightroom 5.4, this is what the Lightroom 5.4 change log says:
"Sharpening/Noise Reduction were applied inconsistently depending on crop and export image size."
Or wait, in less than 6 hours Adobe will announce "some" new software.

12 Messages

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174 Points

6 years ago

Hey Hans. Thanks!

I feel like a fool. I just realised that at some point I disabled updates. No idea why!!

For fun, here's a side-by-side screen shot which illustrates the problem very clearly. :-)

Thanks for your help. Can't believe I didn't notice that.

I'll upgrade to 5.4 and try again...

12 Messages

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174 Points

6 years ago

OK. Updated to 5.4. Exported with 800px short edge. Same problem. No improvement at all.

Here's another side by side:



Note sharpening problem easily by paying attention to the tree in the far background, and the lead subject's hair. Not that noise reduction is lost completely.

For now, the result remains: not solved

To those of you that are trying to help me - thank you - I appreciate it sincerely. However, Lightroom 5.4 with Camera Raw 8.5 is still exporting without the adjustment.

32 Messages

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820 Points

6 years ago

Wow, that's really strange. Things look like a little sharper, but not better. Look at those jagged edges, those lines..
I would love to test it for you here too. Can you please upload the RAW file, or send it (WeTransfer) to info@hansvaneijsden.nl so I can experiment with it?

Ah and by the way, (I hope we're seeing the images at 100% in your screenshots): the image on the right, is that an export of an older Lightroom version? Or a different program?

12 Messages

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174 Points

6 years ago

The side by sides, are literally simply a screen shot of the export (.jpg - on the left) next to the Lightroom window in develop mode (right).

Oddly enough; I've just discovered that a full 100% scale .jpg export also has the same problem. If I "edit in Photoshop" and throw it across from light room, it also has the same problem.

The problem being, what I'm seeing in Lightroom (right) is not what I'm getting in export (left).

In other words; the image on the right is what I want to get exported.

12 Messages

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174 Points

6 years ago

Another interesting point. I just realised that in "Develop", I get the sharpened and noise reduced image. But, in "library" - the image is flat an dull just like the export.

So, the export looks like the "library version".