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6 Messages

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130 Points

Mon, Apr 1, 2019 3:05 AM

Develop module preview differs from Library + Exported JPGs

There is a rendering issue within the latest version of Lightroom Classic CC (8.2).

When making adjustments to highlights, whites, shadows, blacks and exposure, the image shown in the Develop module at the 'fit' zoom level is different to what is shown at a 1:1 zoom, the Library module and in exported JPG's.

Here is a screenshot as seen in the Develop module - https://i.imgur.com/ggvvc2X.jpg

Here is a screenshot of this exact image with no further adjustments, as an exported JPG - https://i.imgur.com/mXJ5XCr.jpg

In this example I have placed a radial adjustment on the couple, +17 Shadows and -90 Whites.

I had been using GPU acceleration but I have turned it off and this does not solve the problem. These are Sony A9 RAW files (.arw), Windows 10.

Responses

799 Messages

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11.5K Points

2 years ago

You DO seem to have an issue, but that the issue is with Lightroom Classic doesn’t necessarily follow, when seen on only 1 platform and 1 machine. I’m on a new iMac and haven’t seen this (Sony A7RII files). Perhaps as a test call a Mac user photo friend to help you test with your images, and another Windows machine also?

6 Messages

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130 Points

2 years ago

Seeing that I've used LR for about 10 years and been editing A9 files with it for over 12 months, it seems unlikely that the issue is elsewhere. Especially considering that the difference can be seen within the Develop module - the image can vary by a whole stop of brightness between 'fit' and the 1:1 zoom ratio before even going to Library or an exported JPG.

The image preview within LR should be consistent between varying Develop zoom levels, and also the Library module.

799 Messages

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11.5K Points

2 years ago

Ben you’re absolutely correct that it seems unlikely, but after a 25 year IT career I can’t tell you how many times the answer to the problem was the unlikely one! As we used to say, “built by hippies, that’s why!”

6 Messages

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130 Points

2 years ago

I know that testing with a wide range of operating environments is important to diagnose a bug, but if the solution turns out to be 'don't edit on a Windows machine with an NVIDIA graphics card' that's not exactly ideal ;-)

In the meantime I'm watching some Capture One tutorials haha

Champion

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3.3K Messages

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58K Points

2 years ago

Did you really post a screenshot of an exported image rather than the exported image itself? Then the first question is what software you use to view the image (and so to make that screenshot) and what color space the exported image has. You would not be the first one who complains about color differences while looking at an image in a non-color managed viewer.

Johan W. Elzenga,

http://www.johanfoto.com

6 Messages

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130 Points

2 years ago

The issue presents itself within different zoom levels of the Develop module of LR.

It's not a colour management issue.

Champion

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5.5K Messages

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97.2K Points

2 years ago

Can you post screen shots of different zoom levels within Develop? Those are the symptoms to focus on for troubleshooting, since as Johan points out, differences in color between Develop, Library, and external viewers are usually color management issues.

Champion

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5.5K Messages

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97.2K Points

2 years ago

Also, try clearing the Camera Raw cache by going to Preferences > Performance > Camera Raw Settings and clicking Purge Cache. There have been a few instances of corrupted caches reported in the past year or so.

Employee

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1.7K Messages

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32.4K Points

2 years ago

What John said. Does the color differences between various develop zoom levels reproduce on any photo or just a particular one. Also for testing, toggle off the GPU acceleration for once and see the issue reproduce there. Pleas post your Lightroom>Help>System Info...

Principal Scientist, Adobe Lightroom

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

2 years ago

There was a similar and opposite issue reported at the below LR forum link.  In this case the Develop module view is brighter than the Library module and Export images on the OP's system. On my system the darker image rendering appears in both the Library and Develop modules with the OP's brighter Develop module screen preview appearing to be incorrect.

It would be helpful for Ben Howland to upload a DNG Export file with his settings applied.

https://forums.adobe.com/message/11000266#11000266



6 Messages

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130 Points

2 years ago

I have cleared the Camera Raw Cache, recalibrated my displays, turned off GPU acceleration and the fault is still present.

'Fit' zoom level within Develop - https://i.imgur.com/7SmFQQc.jpg
1:1 zoom level within Develop - https://i.imgur.com/PGUDRW3.jpg

DNG - https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpsozt8c6b1jx2y/T_001.dng?dl=0
System Info - https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnckl6enre4kvgm/About%20LR.txt?dl=0

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

The downloaded DNG with your settings looks identical at all Zoom settings in both the Library and Develop modules on my Windows 10 system with the same version 10.0.17763. It looks dark to me so not 100% sure what it looks like on your system. I'm using an Nvidia Quadro P2000 GPU, which is much newer. There appears to be a new driver for the Nvidia GTX 1080 released 3/25/2019. Try a "Clean Install' as outlined at the 2nd link below using the new driver.

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/145534/en-us

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2900/kw/clean%20install/session/L3RpbWUvMTU1NDE2...



Employee

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1.7K Messages

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32.4K Points

2 years ago

Thanks for sharing the DNG. I could sort of reproduce e issue, only when I turned on "Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing" (Lightroom>Preferences>Performance). Try to check off this preference and the rendering discrepancies between the 1:1 and fit mode (and the library) would disappear.

What happens is that when this preference is checked (for speed up image walking and editing in develop), Lightroom would try to only load and edit a Smart Preview quality (even when SP is not present) negative when possible. It would only load the full resolution original when one zoom into 1:1 or greater.

Obviously editing this Smart Preview quality negative isn't the same thing as editing the full resolution original. It is just an approximation. For most times, it would be a close replacement. But on this photo, there is visible difference. This is because since Process Version 3, the range of some basic adjustment controls (highlight/shadows/whites/blacks etc) are adaptive to the image content. Such image statistics differs between full resolution and Smart Preview quality negatives. In your case you have applied global and local gradient with such type of adjustments.

If you toggle the Process Version to version 2, then you would not see such differences.

If your priority is the visual fidelity, check off the  "Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing" preference.

Principal Scientist, Adobe Lightroom

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37.9K Points

Thank you Simon–Great investigative work! It looks like that is the cause of a similar issue at the below link in the LR Forum.

https://forums.adobe.com/message/11000266#11000266

In addition when using a Smart Preview for editing with the DNG file at the above post it doesn't properly apply Spot Removal areas, which are visible as dark squares in the below Develop module screenshot.

https://forums.adobe.com/external-link.jspa?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fky6p9imtvvx6gb0%...

As an FYI I'm seeing similar issues (brightness differences) when using a full-size lossy DNG file created using the LR Export module.

Employee

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1.7K Messages

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32.4K Points

Thanks Todd for watching out on these customer issues for us. The DNG is very useful for me to diagnose the problem very quickly. I'll pass on the info to the team.

Technically Smart Preview (or equivalent), lossy compressed DNG are different from the original. All might look similar in the default un-adjusted state, but they might exhibit differences in rendered results, especially under heavy/extreme adjustments.

Principal Scientist, Adobe Lightroom

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37.9K Points

but they might exhibit differences in rendered results, especially under heavy/extreme adjustments.
Simon, this image file and the one at the LR Forum post both have a LR Histogram with the majority of the image data shifted below the 50% level with no edits applied. With both of these images simply setting both Highlights and Shadows to 0 (with all other adjustments still applied) corrects the issue. I've never seen this using Smart Previews or full-size Lossy DNG files when the LR histogram has substantial image data above the 50% level. Just an FYI.

T_001.dng



A__05471.DNG

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37.9K Points

UPDATE: I tired duplicating this issue using Canon 5D MKII image files both properly exposed and underexposed. In ALL cases using Smart Previews for editing I was NOT able to reproduce the issue.

A quick look shows both the image file here and the one in the LR Forum post were shot with a Sony ILCE-9 camera. So it appears to be something specific with this camera model. I hope that helps!

8 Messages

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132 Points

@SimonChen Hi Simon, I have same issue currently with my Sony A9 files I did color corrected more than 300 images and there are are around 80 that are underexposed when exported, is there a way I can’t lost all the work done in those files, is this issue exclusively from Sony A9 files. 

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

Are you using Smart Previews with the original files offline (i.e. external drive disconnected), or with Edit> Preferences> Performance 'Use Smart Previews Instead of Originals for image editing' checked? If so try the export with the original files connected AND the above Preferences setting unchecked.

(edited)

8 Messages

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132 Points

Thanks much Todd, i did it but with no results will try again creating a new catalog and importing files as original. I do have the files on a connected external drive. 

8 Messages

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132 Points

after importing the originals still having the issue when exporting... https://www.loom.com/share/d5c39fcbad4540b0862f23109b3d22f2

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37.9K Points

What does the export JPEG file look like when viewed inside LrC?

8 Messages

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132 Points

Hi Todd, thanks much after importing the files in a new catalog using the preferences you suggested they look OK in Library underexposed in Develop after exported they turn out underexposed , if I bump up the exposure in Develop and then export from there the jpg looks fine but in the library, they look overexposed. 

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

In LrC Edit> Preferences> Performance tab set 'Use Graphics Processor' to Off, close LrC and then restart it to load the setting change. Is there still a difference in exposure between the Library and Develop module's?

8 Messages

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132 Points

Yes, i did it (it was off), then restart Lr again and same difference https://www.loom.com/share/df17cf91b2ed4045bd38231b9ab024eb

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

Do you calibrate your display with A Spyder or other hardware device? You may have an incompatible display profile. Follow the procedure at the below link to check it.

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-change-my-monitor-profile-to-check-whether-its-corrupted/

8 Messages

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132 Points

Thank you i have done that set to D65 and still have the issue with library and develop 

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

Please export one of the files with the issue using your applied Develop settings. Upload the DNG to a file sharing site and I'll check it on my system for issues.

8 Messages

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132 Points

Hi Todd, thanks much for your help! here the link to the picture in different formats https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p6zcg4omqsr2i2y/AAAW2nWg2A_sE4F01sf7I3uKa?dl=0

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

I can confirm what you are seeing with both the DNG and ARW file with XMP settings. However, after building 1:1 Previews the ARW, DNG, and JPEG files look identical in both the Library and Develop modules. Not sure why since the Standard Preview should automatically get updated after applying settings in the Develop module. Try building 1:1 Previews using Library> Previews> Build 1:1 Previews.

I'm going to examine your settings further to see if one of them is causing the issue.

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37.9K Points

I could not find a specific Develop setting that is causing this issue. Forcing rebuild of previews by clicking on the image to Zoom in or using Library> Previews> Build 1:1 Previews fixes it. Why this is necessary is a mystery, but at leats you have a an easy workaround.

8 Messages

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132 Points

Hi Todd, thanks much I did that and there is still a little bit of automatic exposure adjustment in the develop module https://www.loom.com/share/691b47735c6444fca10d5c31bfadcf7a   will let you know how ends during export. thanks again

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

The Develop module builds its previews real-time using the camera raw cache data. Normally you don't notice it, but for some reason with this type of image file it's visible as in your video. The _RPS4813.arw file is about 2-3 EV underexposed, which seems to be causing the issue, but it shouldn't! Others in this post were seeing this issue only when using Smart Previews. You (and I) aren't using Smart Previews so it remains a mystery. Building 1:1 Previews should fix the issue so that the Develop, Library, and export files are all identical.

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

I forgot to add that the Highlights setting is what causes the difference. If you set it to 0 then no flashing or difference between Develop and Library previews. Apparently the Highlights setting is not being applied in the Library module unless 1:1 Previews are built. It appears if you build 1:1 Previews after the initial editing in the Develop module the issue does not reappear when making further edits. Like I said it's a mystery that Adobe needs to solve.

6 Messages

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130 Points

2 years ago

Thanks for all the assistance provided in this thread :)

Unchecking the 'Use Smart Previews' checkbox has resolved the issue for me, extra thanks to Simon! It's disappointing that I can't enjoy the increased performance of using Smart Previews but I'll gladly take that compromise if it means knowing my edits are accurate.

This is clearly still a bug to some degree, from what I could find this community forum was the most legitimate place to report it?

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5.5K Messages

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97.2K Points

This is the official place to report bugs, so your bug has been reported.

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2.3K Messages

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37.9K Points

It's disappointing that I can't enjoy the increased performance of using Smart Previews but I'll gladly take that compromise if it means knowing my edits are accurate.
Ben, looking at your edits this issue is due to using extreme settings near maximum value. This is an "editing recipe" for failure when maximum settings are applied in both the Global Tone panel AND Local controls such as the Adjustment Brush, Graduated Filter and Radial Filter. This can cause issues even when using the original raw file and not just with Smart Previews for editing.

Specifically, you've applied a -100 Whites setting, which is double-extreme since it's a maximum setting AND in the opposite direction of normal usage. On top of that you've applied a Radial filter of -90 Whites, which again is near maximum and the opposite direction of normal usage. This should never be necessary for "normal" image editing. I've created an Adobe Lightroom Help article on the Basic panel Tone Control Adjustment workflow, which should be helpful.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/tone-control-adjustment.html

Instead of the radial Filter use the 'Post Crop Vignetting' control in the 'Effects' panel if that's what you're trying to apply. Otherwise the above article will help achieve your objectives.

In addition to the above settings the DNG file appears very dark on my display and the Histogram is heavily shifted to the left (i.e. Blacks). This is indicative of an overly bright display setting. Do you use a monitor calibrator and if so what Luminance setting?