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120 Points

Thu, Dec 13, 2018 1:48 PM

In progress

Lightroom/Camera Raw: Nikon Z6 RAW processing and Adobe WB

Nikon Z6 bugs only. Interestingly Nikon Z7 raw files don't have these issues. Nikon SDK for both cameras was released and updated on the same date, 18/11/18. Is Adobe Lightroom perhaps using Z7 SDK for Z6?

1) Nikon Z6 raw files are rendered incorrectly. Unlike Z7 the Z6 RAW presets do not carry over.
2) Adobe WB for Z6 is broken. WB Auto has a huge magenta cast, other Adobe WB presets have huge color shifts rendering files useless.
3) None of the Nikon Z-series lens corrections are correct. If lens correction is enabled the lenses are recognized as incorrect lens models.

Responses

Official Solution

Adobe Administrator

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8.2K Messages

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118.3K Points

2 years ago

Greetings

Updates to Lightroom Classic CC (8.2), Lightroom CC for desktop (2.2), Lightroom CC.Mobile (Android and iOS) were released on Monday, February 11, 2019. Please verify that your issue is fixed by the current update.

Thank you for your patience.
 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

Adobe Administrator

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8.2K Messages

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118.3K Points

2 years ago

Thank you for the reports James.  I've forwarded on to the Camera Raw team for review. 
 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

5 Messages

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144 Points

2 years ago

2) I can confirm that. The WB coeffs seem badly calibrated. The WB is correctly read but the tint is usually between -60 and -30. As a result, the presets and the auto WB are useless.
3) Not sure what is meant by OP. Mine are shown as "Intégré" (French). The corrections are good and cannot be unapplied (OK for me).
4) The camera standard profile do not properly match the camera jpegs (standard mode). It shifts the skin tones towards yellow way too much. Adobe Color is actually closer to the jpegs!
I was considering moving to LR from DXO but I am not sure now. Hope this gets resolved.

251 Messages

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6K Points

2 years ago

I see similar (but not quite as large) negative tints needed on my Z7

Adobe Administrator

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118.3K Points

2 years ago

 

Adobe Photography Products

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5 Messages

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144 Points

2 years ago

Thanks, this is much better. Tint is centered around 0.
However it doesn't fix the inaccuracies of camera standard which is slightly too yellow/green compared to the jpegs.

57 Messages

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852 Points

2 years ago

Dear Rikk,

Thanks for paying close attention, as a user of LR since version 1 (beta), at that time using a Nikon D200, i appreciate the constant improvement of image quality. I have also recently switched to a Nikon Z 6 and happily report that the pink tint is gone since the v2 workaround.
Two questions remain:
1. Are the v2 camera profiles in LR 8.2 the same as those posted for the workaround? Is there any action needed after updating to LR 8.2?
2. I noticed/i think that the built-in lens profiles are not up to the same high standard of quality i came to expect from the LR provided lens profiles for previous Nikon F-mount lenses. Has this been tested?

Adobe Administrator

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Re Item 1 - The V2 Profiles shipping in 8.2 are the same profiles as released in the workaround.
Re Item 2 - The Lens profiles are part of the metadata for this camera and not an external profile we create.  We could review implementation of the embedded information if you have a sample file that demonstrates the deficiency.
 

Adobe Photography Products

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57 Messages

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852 Points

Thanks Rikk, this is most appreciated. Will be back with a sample file. Very kind offer indeed.

57 Messages

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852 Points

Dear Rikk, sorry for the long silence, I'm forwarding a Dropbox link to a raw image already taken some time ago (last December), which displays a substantial amount of vignetting with the lens profile set to "built-in" and what it looks like after editing in LR:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ds54p11r9weslnu/AABsaEEAVZfoQrLH3-Nneq1ka?dl=0 

57 Messages

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852 Points

Dear Rikk, did you have a chance to look at my example files (JPG and NEF)? The vignetting issue with the (otherwise fantastic 24-70 f/4 S lens) seems to be mostly confined to the 70 mm zoom end of the range. Would be nice if it can be addressed by an as usual high-quality specific Lightroom lens profile for this new Nikon lens. (I have also observed that Adobe issued lens profiles for the new Canon lenses for the the RF lenses... so there is hope). Best wishes from Corsica, France, Steffen

Adobe Administrator

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I have forwarded to the Camera Raw team for review. 
 

Adobe Photography Products

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57 Messages

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852 Points

Thanks a bunch

57 Messages

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852 Points

Dear Rikk, by way of a small update: the vignetting issue seem to mostly affect only the ~60-70 mm, ie, the long end, of the zoom range. Typically, requires a +25 to +35 vignetting correction in the Lens Corrections panel.

57 Messages

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852 Points

PS: as far as i know there is no mechanism to apply this automatically to a specific zoom range of a particular lens, eg, during the import of new images. The vignetting correction would affect all Z 6 images, isn't it?

57 Messages

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852 Points

PS: would be nice to see some action on Adobe's behalf... mind you, i'm paying a monthly subscription fee but i don't see any work being done for this (at least nothing of any utility for me)?

Adobe Administrator

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If you have a sample file which exhibits the issue well and you would be willing to share with us. The team can take a look and see if they can work with Nikon to get this adjusted. 
 

Adobe Photography Products

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Champion

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2.2K Messages

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37.1K Points

Rikk there are Nikon 24-70 f/4 S lens vignetting test raw files at the below link, which may be helpful.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/nikon/z-24-70mm-f2.8-s-nikkor/review/

The 70mm F2.8 test shot exhibits -1.33 EV vignetting in the extreme corner of the image as measured inside LR with the default settings applied.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-z7/Y-JG-Z7-24-70-F2-8-5103-VIGN-70MM-F2-8.NEF.HTM

The 70mm F4 test shot exhibits -1.00 EV vignetting in the extreme corner of the image as measured inside LR with the default settings applied.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-z7/Y-JG-Z7-24-70-F2-8-5104-VIGN-70MM-F4.NEF.HTM

The 70mm F5.6 test shot exhibits -0.33 EV vignetting in the extreme corner of the image as measured inside LR with the default settings applied.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-z7/Y-JG-Z7-24-70-F2-8-5105-VIGN-70MM-F5-6.NEF.HTM

Exactly why Nikon chose not to better correct the F2.8 and F4 vignetting remains to be determined.

57 Messages

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852 Points

Thanks Rikk. I've added the most recent 70 mm shot (well, 66 mm to be exact) taken on last Saturday to the Dropbox folder I'd shared previously (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ds54p11r9weslnu/AABsaEEAVZfoQrLH3-Nneq1ka?dl=09

57 Messages

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852 Points

Dear Rikk, hope all is well. Did you please have a chance to look into this? Many of your loyal Lightroom users (in my case since version 1.0 beta) are waiting for this. We may be spoiled by the past (where Lightroom provided perfect profiles) but i hope this high expectation could be a motivation? Thanks in advance!

Adobe Administrator

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We did. The team is working on new profiles for an upcoming release. I do not have an ETA.
 

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57 Messages

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852 Points

These are terrific news! Thanks a bunch Rikk also to the team. I can't wait to be able to use the new profiles... ;-)

57 Messages

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852 Points

Dear Rikk, hope all is well. LrC 9.3 is out (with new a icon, which looks great) but i can't find profiles for Nikon's new Z lenses. Hope that doesn't mean another wait of several months... (i was hoping to be able to save loads of time for this summer holiday's pictures - looks like i have to continue to manually adjust vignetting for many images).

57 Messages

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852 Points

Or is there a chance to help with beta testing the new profiles...? ;-)

251 Messages

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6K Points

Lightroom uses the built-in profiles for z-lenses that Nikon z-series cameras embed in the NEF files. You can't turn off the lens correction on the z-series in Lightroom which is a real problem and subject of another thread on this forum. If you set lens correction on a file from a z-camera, you get double correction so you have no control. Adobe does this for most mirrorless cameras for a reason that is not entirely clear.

57 Messages

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852 Points

Aha, thanks Jao. If this is the case, this is indeed weird. However, i'm still hoping for Rikk's colleagues to deliver a solution that fits (a) their track record of delivering great correction profiles for Nikon and other glasses and (b) the price of our subscriptions. ;-)

(Re double correction: my problem is actually not related to over-compensation - which one would expect with "double correction" - but a substantial and very (!) visible under-compensation (or no compensation at all at least on my Z 24-70 f/4 at both ends of the zoom, ie toward 24mm and 70mm, and with F-stops below 6.3))

57 Messages

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852 Points

Hi Rikk, i can see that LR 9.4 lays the groundwork for introducing Adobe calibrated lens profiles to replace the built-in profiles (which can be poor as in the case of the new Nikon Z lenses). Maybe in October? This will then be almost 2 years since these new Z cameras hit the market... sigh and hope at the same time.

8 Messages

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132 Points

Hi Rikk, you can imagine how disappointed i was when i opened version 10 and realised that there is still no support for the now 2 year old Nikon z lenses...

8 Messages

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132 Points

(apart from a continued absence of support for HEIC export)

Adobe Administrator

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118.3K Points

@Steffen

Lens profiles are embedded on the Nikon Z-6 and are enabled by default. There is no need to apply one as it is already applied.

As of the August update you also have the option to disable the Lens profile. 

Given that I can't understand your disappointment because they have been there for some time. 

 

Adobe Photography Products

Quality Engineering - Customer Advocacy

8 Messages

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132 Points

Dear Rikk,

Thanks and oops. Our point has always been (since more than a year and backed up by several comments and example files) that the Nikon built-in profiles are low quality and that they need to be replaced by Adobe calibrated lens profiles... and yourself confirmed this (see above): "The team is working on new profiles for an upcoming release. I do not have an ETA." (7 months ago)...

Best wishes, Steffen

(edited)

251 Messages

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6K Points

We also still cannot turn off the lens profile for the Z7 even when correction was turned off in camera even in the latest update. For built in profiles such as the ones the mirrorless Nikons embed in the raw files, we really need the capability to use the amount sliders like we can do for Adobe developed profiles. For example, the vignetting correction Lightroom applies using the built-in profiles is not enough. Lightroom also applies less correction than Nikon applies using the same profile when using their own raw converter at default settings.

8 Messages

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132 Points

@jao: agreed, it's still a significant quality issue for Nikon Z camera images in Lightroom (since late 2018....).

10 Messages

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196 Points

a year ago

Using Camera Neutral Profile in Lightroom Classic CC 8.2.1 i still have the Magenta cast with the white balance presets different from "Original" when applied to outdoor landscapes NEF images of my Nikon Z6. I need a flat or neutral profile because i use a lot the highlights and shadows sliders to adjust high contrast scene images.

10 Messages

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196 Points

a year ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled cyan color cast appears in the sky when raising the whites slider with Nikon raw ....

With Camera Neutral Profile and my Nikon Z6 Nef files when i raise the whites slider (in Develop section) for example from 0 to +30 it happens that a cyan color cast appears in the sky of a landscape with blue sky. I found this problem in Lightroom Classic CC 8.2.1 as well as in older versions and also with older Nikon Cameras. The color of the sky looses its natural look.

Champion

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37.1K Points

a year ago

I suggest uploading a file that exhibits the issue to Dropbox or other file sharing site and copy the share link in a reply here. The V2 profiles are supposed to have fixed this issue so a file exhibiting the issue will help.

3 Messages

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98 Points

a year ago

I am using two cameras (Nikon D750 and Z6) and had to delete all profiles from my presets. Otherwise my workflow does not work with Adobe Standard profiles. Isn't it possible to let Adobe Standard proper work with Z6 files?

10 Messages

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196 Points

a year ago

10 Messages

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196 Points

This is the cyan cast with camera neutral v2 and whites raised to +70 (i exaggerated to make the issue visible)

Champion

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2.2K Messages

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37.1K Points

Guido, we really need to see an actual file. Even better Export one of the files with your settings to DNG file format as shown below. It will have your settings embedded so we can see what you see!

10 Messages

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196 Points

Sorry i don't have dropbox

Champion

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2.2K Messages

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37.1K Points

You can get a free 2GB Dropbox account that requires no payments and no strings!

https://www.dropbox.com/basic

10 Messages

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196 Points

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1tlfejds4wy97k/GUI_1379.dng?dl=0  I've just uploaded the file to dropbox

Champion

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2.2K Messages

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37.1K Points

I can confirm what you are seeing. It appears that the original Camera Neutral profile and new Camera Neutral V2 profile are identical and exhibit the same issue, but their 'As Shot' WB Temp and Tint values are different. The intent of the V2 profiles is to better match the LR WB Temp an Tint values so this is expected.

Camera Neutral profile As Shot WB:  4150, -26

Camera Neutral V2 profile As Shot WB:  4450, +18

Adjusting WB to the below values makes the Camera Neutral profile and new Camera Neutral V2 profile renderings appear the same, but with the a slight cyan color shift in the sky. This may be reflecting the actual in-camera matching profile rendering. The WB value differences are probably due to the in-camera 'Auto' WB setting being influenced by the large yellow-green foliage area. You also have the in-camera Active D-Lighting set to Extra High, which LR cannot read and apply. That will change the image appearance when compared to an in-camera JPEG, the raw file's embedded preview, or using Nikon's raw editing software. I suggest leaving the Active D-Lighting in-camera setting OFF.




Camera Neutral profile WB:       5500, -47

Camera Neutral V2 profile WB:  5500, +10

251 Messages

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6K Points

Just one comment. With the Z6 and Z7, Lightroom actually does understand the active D-lighting settings. They are automatically applied by dialing in exposure compensation and highlights and shadows. This is done by the camera by writing camera raw xmp settings into the NEF files that are read and applied by Lightroom. These are the only current cameras where in-camera settings do transfer into Lightroom so in general you are right but not when it pertains to these two.

10 Messages

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196 Points

Thank you Todd for the explanation and support

Champion

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2.2K Messages

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37.1K Points

Thanks for the correction Jao. The Nikon Z6 and Z7 are setting new ground when it comes to in-camera settings!

Guido, try using the Adobe Neutral or Adobe Standard V2 profile instead Camera Neutral V2. It doesn't appear to shift the sky color  toward cyan so may be a better choice for this image. You can also try using the Adjustment Brush to paint in some Dehaze in the distant mountain and sky areas. Use any of the other brush settings as needed to achieve the desired rendering.

This uses Adobe Neutral with an Adjustment Brush of Dehaze 35 in the sky and mountain area and your original settings. You can tweak the Basic panel controls to improve the overall rendering to your taste. The LR Dehaze control works miracles on pulling detail out of the haze!

10 Messages

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196 Points

Ok i will try thank you Todd

Adobe Administrator

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56 Messages

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1.1K Points

a year ago

Thank you for uploading the file, we will verify this behavior with the attached image.