pierre_g_rard's profile

14 Messages

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874 Points

Tue, Nov 7, 2017 5:40 PM

60

Camera Raw/Lightroom Classic/Lightroom Ecosystem: Disable built-in lens profile

I own Micro43 and compact cameras, where lens profiles are integrated in RAW files. With software like Capture One Pro, I can easily enable or disable theses built-in profiles. Actually, there is even a slider allowing to enable 0% or 100% of the built-in profile, and whatever percentage in between.

In LR (CC, Classic or LR6), the checkox for enabling or disabling profiles does not work with built-in profiles, which always stay enabled. This seriously limits the possibilities of several cameras which possibilities get unleashed by actual RAW developpers like Capture One Pro.

I'm actually a COP user (after switching from LR) but DAM sucks with COP and this built-in lens profile thing is the only deal breaker for me to come back. So please let users disable built-in lens profiles, or at least offer workarounds.

As a workaround, a dumb "zero" profile that would replace the built-in one (not coming on top of it) could do the job.

Responses

Official Solution

Adobe Administrator

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10.7K Messages

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142.2K Points

1 y ago

This has been implemented for select camera models going forward from the August release (Camera Raw 12.4, Lightroom Classic 9.4 and LIghtroom Desktop 3.4).  There are no plans to make this retroactive to previously released camera models. 

Champion

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2.4K Messages

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39.1K Points

4 y ago

Great idea! Allow the "built-in lens profile" to use the same controls as the Adobe provided lens profiles. I usually change the Lens Profile Default Settings to Distortion = 0 and Vignetting = 50 to 100 dependent on the lens. With shorter focal length lenses this reduces the stretching, noise, and aberrations in the image corners and sides.

Also many of the "compact" camera lenses have a high amount of barrel distortion (almost fisheye) at the extreme wide end. I discovered it was possible to recover a considerable amount of raw image data area  being cropped by the built-in lens profile using PS Adaptive Wide Angle Filter in 'Fisheye' mode. I use RawDigger export to TIFF to recover the full image data and then process in PS, but the results would be better using LR's raw converter. This works especially well with images that need transform corrections.

14 Messages

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874 Points

4 y ago

You exactly get the point. For people who are not obsessed by straight lines but rather prefer unstreched (thus more natural looking) objects on the borders, it is necessary to be able to control distortion correction for built-in profiles the same way as it works with external profiles. Besides, it should be VERY easy to perform : just let the existing checkbox play its role. It shouldn't require more than a very few lines of code.

With Capture One Pro, my Canon G7XII is completely transformed. For instance, the wide angle is actually more like 21mm or 22mm when you use the full sensor, and not 24mm as croped by Canon+LR. I'd like to switch to LR but as it, I just can't since it would dramatically restraint my gear.

I understand that for such cams, SW correction is somehow "part of the system". So I can get that by default, the built-in profile is enabled. But a sowftare which claims beeing a RAW converter should let the user choose to actually using all the RAW data.

14 Messages

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874 Points

4 y ago

With december's new autotone (it was unuseable before), it is more and more tempting for me to switch back from Capture One (DAM is so poor...) to LR again.

But this built-in lens profiles thing is just a complete dealbreaker given my gear.

Could an Adobe insider tell me if this change is on a ToDo list ? 

14 Messages

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874 Points

4 y ago

Samples

Let me consider a Canon G7X. I could have done the same with other compacts or mirrorless cameras with heavilly distorted lenses, and buil-in profiles.

This is what it looks like OOC or developed by LR

14 Messages

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874 Points

4 y ago

Samples

Let me consider a Canon G7X. I could have done the same with other compacts or mirrorless cameras with heavilly distorted lenses, and built-in profiles. I'll take a G7XII sample from dpreview.

This is what you get OOC or developed by LR (soft corners due to heavy stretching)


This is the actual full sensor data (as you can get with C1P, DXO or any RAW convertor I could test, except LR) : there is vignetting but the angle of view is actually (much) wider than 24mm (FFeqvt), and 
 

This is what you get with a manual crop : by comparison with the Lightroom version, the angle of view is actually larger but LR prevents you to take advantage of your gear and hides large areas of your sensor.


What's wrong ?

In LR interface, we have this dialog :


But when the profile is built-in (as usual with compacts and mirrorless), the "Enable Profile Corrections" has no effect. Checked or unchecked, the profile is always enabled.

So, LR prevents to disable built-in profiles, and prevent users to take full advantage of their gear.

How to solve ?

Let the checkbox work as it should.

Other use cases (mostly wide angle with compact lenses)

Some people love shooting with fisheyes when they prefer to preserve natural and unstreched shapes rather than straight lines. It is often not the case for architecture but in situations such as
  • wide angle portraits
  • wide angle group shots with streched people on the border
  • wide angle landscapes where straight lines are not mandatory
  • wide angle with a priority to sharp corners above straight lines
rectilinerar projection are not always suitable, and people (like me) prefer keeping "distortion"μ.

Only LR forces users to perform rectilinear projections. I have no problem with enbling this by default, but the checkbox should work and the built-in profiles should be possibly disabled.

Note that sometimes, people complain about tiny details. This problem is visible even at very low resolutions. It affects the global geometry of an image. Adobe should let the users some creative possibilies.

14 Messages

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874 Points

4 y ago

In capture one, you can see how the profile crops the sensor area. Even by keeping things rectilinear, a lot is lost by LR, and unrecoverable.



Other use case :
  • even rectilinear, recover small framing mistakes

14 Messages

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874 Points

4 y ago

Another example (not a landscape)

This is what you get with the standard profile : people on the side look fat because of the strong streching induced by a rectilinear projection.


This is what you can get when you disable the lens profile : people look much more natural and the image is wider than 24mm (like having a better lens). I cannot see an obvious drawback not having lines totally straight in situations like this one.


A software should permit the user to have more control. LR forces the user to use a profile, while using a profile should be a possibility offered by the program. Profiles can be enabled by default, but we would like to disable them at will.

14 Messages

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874 Points

4 y ago

I would add that :
  • It is not a huge work : no new algorithm, no new dialog
  • It really ruins compact gear when used with LR
  • It does not change anything to the existent : nobody will complain because it doesn't change anything for existing pictures and default behaviour of LR

3 Messages

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92 Points

4 y ago

Hi there
I too have been miffed about Auto lens profiles being applied in both Lightrooom and Photoshop; with absolutely no way of disabling it.
I shoot extensively with an Olympus 8mm lens so very often I am wanting distortion.
At last I discovered Olympus Viewer 3, you can TURN OFF lens information on Olympus raw files.
In RAW2 edit section / Distortion Correction / Manual -uncheck the "Use Lens Information" and adjust manually the distortion on a plus or minus scale.
What a brilliant way to dial in your preference as you intended, I rather think it may only be for Olympus users?

149 Messages

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3.3K Points

4 y ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Unable to disable "Built-in Lens Profile applied" for raw files.

I recently purchased a Sony A7R2 and rented several Sony FE lenses to evaluate which ones I want to make part of my kit. While comparing some shots in Lightroom 6.7 I noticed a little notice in the "Lens Correction" tab of the Develop Module.

This is a little surprising as I had already turned off all three "Lens Comp." options in the A7R2 menu even though I only shoot raw. Additionally because I am shooting raw I was fully expecting that no lens compensation corrections would be made unless I enabled them in the Lens Correction tab.

Now I find that sometimes Adobe apparently is using lens correction profiles imbedded in the raw files by some camera companies, Sony, Fuji and Olympus to automatically apply some. corrections. 

In the case of the three FE lenses I have tried so far they always seem to be corrected for chromatic aberrations. This is always applied even though I turned this off in camera and have not checked it in the Lens Correction tab.  For some other camera/lens combinations distortion and/or vignette corrections are unilaterally applied by Adobe.

It has been pointed out to me that some of these corrections are an integral part of the camera system, that some lenses were in fact designed to rely on such software corrections. While this makes a good case to make these corrections the default action I don't think that they should be mandatory. 

-louie

Employee

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382 Messages

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7.6K Points

4 y ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Unable to disable "Built-in Lens Profile applied" for raw files (#2).

Hi Louie,

Per request from Sony, Lightroom will enable the external lens profile automatically for raw files if the lens comp settings are enabled in the camera and an external profile is available in the version of the application you are running. The external profile corrects for geometric distortion and vignetting only. The chromatic aberration correction is baked into the raw file using opcodes that cannot be disabled in Lightroom.

If you wish to disable the external profile by default, you can set a new lens profile default (with it disabled) for each lens/camera combination.

Regards,

- Chris

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: Lightroom: Unable to disable "Built-in Lens Profile applied" for raw files.

3 Messages

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92 Points

4 y ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Disable Automatic Lens Information- Profile.

Hi there
I too have been miffed about Auto lens profiles being applied in both Lightrooom and Photoshop; with absolutely no way of disabling it.
I shoot extensively with an Olympus 8mm lens so very often I am wanting distortion.
At last I discovered Olympus Viewer 3, you can TURN OFF lens information on Olympus raw files.
In RAW2 edit section / Distortion Correction / Manual -uncheck the "Use Lens Information" and adjust manually the distortion on a plus or minus scale.
What a brilliant way to dial in your preference as you intended, I rather think it may only be for Olympus users?

14 Messages

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874 Points

4 y ago

I don't understand these merge things. But before I write this topic, I used to read the mentioned ones, but the answers didn't seem (as far as I understand) adress my problem. My problem is
  1. beyond Olympus only, and requires a reneral solution
  2. has nothing to do with Sony external profiles
What I'm talking about is simply about built-in profiles, whatever the brand. If LR knows how to apply them, it should be able not to aply them.

Now I'm quite confused with all these messages. Nobody has a single chance to understand anyhing, and the bug will never be solved. Anyway, I've already switched to DXO Photo Labs just because this issue. At least, DXO let people use their raw files.

8 Messages

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182 Points

4 y ago

Hi there, I'm having some trouble processing DJI X5R DNGs with Adobe Camera Raw. All DNGs I take with the Olympus Zuiko 25/1.8 show heavy apochromatic refraction AFTER Adobe Camera Raw applies the integrated lens profile.

The proxy-files produced by the X5R do not show any problems, it's the same when I process the files with DJI Cinelight, even when I place the DNG-files in Premiere Pro CC and do the color correction with the Lumetri engine, there is no apchromatic refraction.
So the lens itself should not be the problem

As a test I have used DNG Cleaner for Apple to erase the integrated profile and when doing that, Adobe Camera Raw imports the DNGs without integrated profile and without any apchromatic refraction.

The downside of DNG Cleaner is that it is one more step in processing the RAWs, and Premiere Pro will not accept the files as a sequence.

So it would be great to have the possibility to deactivate the integrated lens profile directly in Adobe Camera Raw!

Here are links to the DNGs:
Original file
(will be accepted by premiere pro cc's media browser, actual version)
File with erased integrated lens profile
(will not be accepted by premiere pro)