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11 Messages

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400 Points

Wed, Feb 19, 2020 1:10 AM

Planned

15

Camera Raw/Lightroom Classic: Support for .CR3 Camera-matching Profiles

There is currently zero support for .CR3 camera color profiles in Lightroom... especially since the newer Canon cameras use a .CR3 format... making it difficult to get work done. Only slightly surprised that this wasnt planned for beforehand since there still isnt a 64bit version of the adobe programs that i can use on the most current version of MacOS.

Responses

14 Messages

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282 Points

5 months ago

Third party camera matching profiles have just been released for 1DX Mark 3: Camera Standard, Portrait and Low/Medium/High general puropse profiles. They appear to work well and are much improved from Adobe Color renderings.
Not sure if I'm allowed to post the link here or not.

14 Messages

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282 Points

5 months ago


6 Messages

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202 Points

5 months ago

I'm still not seeing these profiles in LrC.  Are these "Color Fidelity" profiles what you mean by Camera standard?  And when will they be available in LR?

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5.3K Messages

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95.6K Points

As Willie said, they're third-party camera profiles, evidently from colorfidelity.com ($15 each).

6 Messages

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202 Points

Ah, thanks.  I was misreading that.  Thought he meant the third party was the camera vendor rather than a profile vendor.  Is this the team that originally used to make Huelight profiles? I used those with my 5DSR and was reasonably happy with them.  I might try these out...

Champion

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5.3K Messages

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95.6K Points

I know nothing about them other than a quick read of their web site.

6 Messages

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202 Points

Yea.  It does look like these are the Huelight profiles.  I'm going to try them out since I had a positive prior experience with them.  I'm sure they will be better than the Adobe profiles.

14 Messages

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282 Points

Yes it seems to be the same team previously known as Huelight but now called Color Fidelity. The Medium V2 seems a good match for the in-camera JPEG color rendering and will try it on some jobs today.
Point taken that if a third party can supply these profiles then it shoud be fairly easy for Adobe to offer camera matching profiles for Canon's new cameras?

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21.6K Points

Or use the Calibration pane to alter the existing profile for maybe a better match to a camera JPEG which is a non subjective rendering by a ”machine”.

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

8 Messages

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190 Points

3 months ago

There is now support for the R5 and R6 CR3 raw format in the latest Camera Raw. 

Still no camera matching profiles for any Canon camera that was released after the EOS R. :(

I actually ENJOY spending my time in Lightroom (mobile and classic). it'd be fantastic if I could keep my workflow 100% within lightroom with Adobe provided profiles AND still have a good baseline look that matches what the Canon cameras produce in their JPGs. 

(and yes, I know I can build my own profiles.....)

1.8K Messages

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21.6K Points

Or use the Calibration pane to alter the existing profile for maybe a better match to a camera JPEG which is a non subjective rendering by a ”machine”.

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

11 Messages

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400 Points

Lol it boggles the mind that there's support for the R5 and R6 but not the 1Dx MkIII... the flagship pro body... i was excited for the update this week until I saw it didnt add any camera profiles for that... yet again...

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21.6K Points

I suppose what Adobe has posted for a long time needs repeating again:

” Support for a particular flavor of a camera’s raw file does not necessarily mean that there will be Camera Matching profiles for that camera at the time of raw file support. It is normal for Camera Matching profiles to follow raw support by one or two releases. In the case of some camera manufacturers or the event of major changes by a particular manufacturer, that time may be greatly increased.

Note: Not all cameras will ever receive a set of Camera Matching profiles. ”

The last sentence is key to read and accept.

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

14 Messages

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282 Points

1DX Mk3 shares the same Adobe support as the R5 and R6. No camera matching profiles for any of the new Canon cameras

11 Messages

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400 Points

Also still strange since they've supported every other 1Dx body up until now and I was told directly by Adobe personel that there WOULD be support for it... possibly within 90 days... in February... and they still maintain that stance.

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21.6K Points

Which Adobe personal made such a promise?

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

11 Messages

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400 Points

Several people that I spoke with at Adobe support.

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21.6K Points

Several people that I spoke with at Adobe support.
Ah, so Adobe support, not anyone on the actual ACR or LR team. Perhaps someone in a far off cubical in another country from where either team actually produces the product perhaps? 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

11 Messages

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400 Points

Sure. Even though they were US based you're probably right. Why don't you look in to it for us since you seem to be an expert on Adobe and their inner workings? I'm sure we would all appreciate the help.

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21.6K Points

Here's all that I need to look for in terms of why you might be waiting for awhile, it's an official statement, here in the forums, from Adobe, not some undefined tech support person:
"Note: Not all cameras will ever receive a set of Camera Matching profiles.”
If they are produced and shipped, you'll get them, but don't expect, demand they will. But maybe they will. Until then.... There are other options until then, if then ever comes:
  1. Create and edit your own profiles using the free software that is available.
  2. Shoot JPEGs. They you'll get the exact proprietary rendering from the machine called a camera. 
  3. Make edits in the Calibration pane and elsewhere, name a preset "1Dx Vivid" or whatever you want. 
That's the help I can provide at this time. If you need specific help in any of the above, I'd be happy to try. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

8 Messages

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190 Points

Andrew I did exactly that with my Insta360 OneR which takes both JPGs and DNGs. I used the JPGs as a guideline to tweak the calibration pane. The results are acceptable...   

I can do the same thing with my M6mkII. Shoot in dual mode and try to build a profile... 
I bought a 3rd party profile for the M6mkII and the results are more to my liking than the Adobe ones

8 Messages

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190 Points

Color Fidelity has released the M6 MkII profiles (which are the ones I needed), and they work beautifully. 
I did a few tests taking both JPGs and RAWs and they give the closest 'look' to what Canon intended (vs Adobe and another 3rd party I tried). 


Totally worth the $15/camera profiles

35 Messages

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648 Points

3 months ago

Carlos Mejia
>> "I bought a 3rd party profile for the M6mkII and the results are more to my liking than the Adobe ones."

Link, please.

Color Fidelity have not released profiles for the M6ii, but they have put out profiles for the 90D which uses the same sensor/CFA module, so I bought a set and edited the internal camera id fields to M6ii. They work pretty well.
 
I have also made profiles by sending tifs from DPP to Photoshop, deriving LUTs from them and then making profiles in ACR from the LUTs.

1 Message

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80 Points

''and edited the internal camera id fields to M6ii.'' how did u do this?

14 Messages

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282 Points

3 months ago

Color Fidelity have released new v3 profiles for the 1DX III and R5 and I received an email with the new profiles which are now XML rather than DCP.  the documentation states  The colour has been pushed very close to Canon "Camera Standard" as per user requests.
First impressions thus far are very positive.

14 Messages

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282 Points

Forgot to include the website in post above
https://www.colorfidelity.com/

16 Messages

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424 Points

Thanks for this post.  I gave up on Adobe supporting the 1DX3 color profile and the Adobe basic profiles are terrible for this particular camera.  I spent the $15 and downloaded the color fidelity profiles.  The CF Standard V3 profile that is included in their package seems pretty accurate and using it has greatly improved my workflow and decreased image editing time trying to color match.  Thanks again... maybe someday we will a camera standard matching profile through Adobe.... but I won't hold my breath.  

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21.6K Points

Just how accurate are they? I'd prefer an average dE using dE 2000 formula if possible. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

1 Message

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52 Points

3 months ago

Definitely need those camera profiles ! Please work on it adobe and canon !

3 Messages

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80 Points

a month ago

When will R5 camera color profiles be added to adobe products and why do none of the latest modern canon cameras have these profiles in lightroom. Is there an issue between adobe and canon that is preventing this from happening ?

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled When will R5 camera color profiles be added to adobe products

26 Messages

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326 Points

a month ago

switching from CR2 files to CR3 and the adobe profiles are not good, this has halted my workflow,. I expect for a subscription service to keep up with updates, this camera has been out for a while and i am at a stand still with production unless I want to spend an enormous amount of time corrected the lacking adobe profile,.. LR is a workflow product that is now turned into a workflow stopper. Please help.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled OMG They are gone, were are the R5 Canon Profiles

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21.6K Points

Camera Matching Profiles: 

Support for a particular flavor of a camera’s raw file does not necessarily mean that there will be Camera Matching profiles for that camera at the time of raw file support.  It is normal for Camera Matching profiles to follow raw support by one or two releases. In the case of some camera manufacturers or the event of major changes by a particular manufacturer, that time may be greatly increased. 

Note: Not all cameras will ever receive a set of Camera Matching profiles. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Champion

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5.3K Messages

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95.6K Points

26 Messages

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326 Points

a month ago

made a submission and now it has been merged, the question has still not been answered, when/if will camera profile for canon happen? I got a patronizing response but nothing that indicates if this is going to happen.  the adobe profile makes these images look like 1980 color, and if I have to use DPP or another program that ruins the benefit of LR as a workflow tool.

20 Messages

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268 Points

I agree 100%. This is something that Adobe always delivered for previous cameras. One of the biggest reasons I subscribed. The Camera Standard profile was just great. But not anymore. No more Camera Matching profiles for new Canon cameras (after the EOS R). To me this is worse than if Adobe removed the highlight slider. But another arrogant replier (that does not seem to be from Adobe) would just answer: "What's your problem; You have the shadow slider. Use that instead. Or make your own slider". Man that is not helping. At all. So maybe we can have a real answer now. From Adobe this time, I hope.

26 Messages

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326 Points

a month ago

how can a small guy like " colorfidelity " have a better camera profile (not perfect but light years better than adobe standard) than the massive adobe inc.? when will cr3 support happen?

(edited)

1.8K Messages

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21.6K Points

@NarratusMedia Well you could do the same. By creating your own DCP profiles (software free) and/or editing existing profiles (again, with free software). 

Everything you thought you wanted to know about DNG/DCP camera profiles:
All about In this 30 minute video, we will look into the creation and use of DNG (.dcp) camera profiles in three raw converters. The video covers:
What are DNG camera profiles, how do they differ from ICC camera profiles.
Misconceptions about DNG camera profiles.
Just when, and why do you need to build custom DNG camera profiles?
How to build custom DNG camera profiles using the X-rite Passport software.
The role of various illuminants on camera sensors and DNG camera profiles.
Dual Illuminant DNG camera profiles.
Examples of usage of DNG camera profiles in Lightroom, ACR, and Iridient Developer.
Low Rez (YouTube):
http://youtu.be/_fikTm8XIt4
High Rez (download):
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/DNG%20Camera%20profile%20video.mov

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

sure, but I'm paying monthly for software so i don't have to do that

26 Messages

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326 Points

i am trying to find out if adobe is going to add it or not

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21.6K Points

That's like suggesting that because you pay for a monthly subscription, Adobe should also provide output profiles for your printers. Nope. You have Adobe Standard. You want other profiles. Buy them if you must, create them yourself for free. Your choice. 

Oh, you can stop subscription anytime too. I don't see how throwing out the baby with the bathwater is useful but of course you can do so. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

1.8K Messages

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21.6K Points

i am trying to find out if adobe is going to add it or not

Currently, not. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

sorry, Im not a trainer, or tech, just trying to get back the function that the product had before the camera upgrade, but at least your there to defend adobe. thanks for the info , hopefully someone will  answer the original question.

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21.6K Points

sorry, Im not a trainer, or tech, just trying to get back the function that the product had before the camera upgrade

You upgraded a camera, nothing changed otherwise with LR. 

, but at least your there to defend adobe

No, I'm providing you the facts and a fix you apparently can't produce. Fine. 

Adobe may provide camera matching profiles in the future, maybe means maybe, and if Canon made it easier (didn't hide some information in their proprietary raws with newer CR versions), Adobe might have an easier time as they did in the past. You asked a question, you got a factual answer. So did the OP. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

well if your factual answer gives a solution to me then maby you should send it to adobe, if its that easy then they have even less of a reason to not supply the function to the customers asking for it

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21.6K Points

Adobe DID provide a factual answer, it was pasted here 2 months ago. Since some haven't found it, I'll paste it again (2nd time today):

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/camera-raw-and-dng/what-does-camera-support-mean/5f5f46244b561a3d4275ca34

Support for a particular flavor of a camera’s raw file does not necessarily mean that there will be Camera Matching profiles for that camera at the time of raw file support. It is normal for Camera Matching profiles to follow raw support by one or two releases. In the case of some camera manufacturers or the event of major changes by a particular manufacturer, that time may be greatly increased. 

Note: Not all cameras will ever receive a set of Camera Matching profiles. ”

The last sentence is key to read and accept. This may change, it may not. 

In the meantime you can work towards your own solution of complain. The former takes less time than the later actually. 

If you spend five minutes complaining, you have just wasted five minutes.” Anonymous

(edited)

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

ooo now we have quotes from anonymous, this is getting fun

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21.6K Points

ooo now we have quotes from anonymous, this is getting fun

Nope:

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

not to antagonize too much, but the biggest question is when and if , the vague response adobe is giving should be clarified.,  

In all seriousness i do appreciate you info, i will look at it further if I have time,, I spend more time behind the camera than at the desk. 

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21.6K Points

There was clarification in the URL provided from Adobe. 

You will need to spend a minute or two behind the camera to create your own DCP camera profiles but it is time well spent. Maybe some time editing them to match a JPEG (questionable if that's even necessary, rendering controls as outlined above, saved as a Preset can probably provide a subjective acceptance of a 'match' which no one anywhere ever guaranteed would produce a match in all cases). 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

ok, I'll stop here, your not getting were i am coming from and that's fine, you can release me back into the wild. 

8 Messages

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190 Points

nice thread. 


- I paid the $15 to ColorFidelity for the M6mkII profiles.  I didn't want to spend time creating my own DCP, but I do want to easily get a BASELINE on RAW that looks close to what Canon JPG is.
Although not imposible by any means, I don't think creating a good profile is 5 minutes, and if it were, Adobe could've done it already

- I know I can use Canon's DPP to get an exact match. But I actually enjoy doing all my photo processing in LR. 

- I don't DEMAND Adobe to get these camera matching profiles out. It would be nice, that's all. Again, because I actually enjoy doing 100% of my processing in LR. 

- In other words, Adobe Product Managers, I think there's some need for these profiles..

(edited)

1.8K Messages

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21.6K Points

Creating a profile is about 5 minutes to produce after shooting a target. 

I never said nor suggested editing any profile to mimic a JPEG would take 5 minutes. Might, probably not. Absolutely doable either with the free DNG camera profile editor OR using the Calibration Pane and other sliders then produce a preset. Does it or will it match ALL JPEGs? Doubtful nor can Adobe or anyone else guarantee such profiles or presets will always do so.

I do want to easily get a BASELINE on RAW that looks close 

The key word is close.  

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

a month ago

does adobe ever post in here? to this thread that is

(edited)

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21.6K Points

does adobe ever post in here?

Yes; as the URL I provided with the post from Adobe illustrates. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

a month ago

last question got merged so I will try again, seems third parties can make a profile that is close but not quite there, it has been a long time since the cr3 came out, if there a guess or timeline of camera profiles?

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled will it ever have a timeline

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21.6K Points

Anyone can make or edit a DCP camera profile. You simply need the software to do so, at least two companies (Adobe and X-rite) have free products to do so. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

take a break andrew lets hear from someone else,  

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21.6K Points

Someone else did answer: John Ellis below. 

 it's very unlikely that you'll get a timeline from Adobe 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Champion

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5.3K Messages

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95.6K Points

a month ago

Note that there is an official response from Adobe employee Rikk Flohr at the top of this conversation, posted 13 hours ago.

Also note that Adobe has marked this feature request as "planned". But it's very unlikely that you'll get a timeline from Adobe -- to quote Rikk, "ETA for any type of camera support is generally not announced in advance of release."

26 Messages

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326 Points

I read Rikk but its a vague "we aren't going to answer answer and then there is andrew_rodney who must sit next to Rikk but Ill keep asking hope there will be a real answer soon instead of the not going to answer that answers................

Using a profile now from conlorfidelity but its not the same and tried using my color chart from Xrite, but it not the same, it has been said it only take a few minutes in this thread multiple times but if so then adobe could do it better than me.

(edited)

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21.6K Points

Nothing at all vague. You didn't hear an answer you want to hear, oh well. 

Those who know when (because they either work for Adobe or are under NDA) can't say. Those who are not might tell you something you want to hear that's not accurate. 

Rikk provided the facts directly from inside Adobe, it's a real answer. You can accept or ignore the actual answer; it's not going to make the profiles appear for you. 

ok, I'll stop here, your not getting were i am coming from and that's fine, you can release me back into the wild. 

Released <g>

(edited)

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

thank you again for another riveting response Andrew

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21.6K Points

thank you again for another riveting response Andrew

OK, since you must have an answer (date) accurate or made up, the profiles you desire will be released on February 29. <g>. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

26 Messages

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326 Points

lol love it! andrew_rodney your the greatest!

26 Messages

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326 Points

my apologies daniel_nikhoo_683pb7az4x0q2, 

26 Messages

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326 Points

a month ago

if I ever get to santa fe, we got to do coffee! your a trip andrew_rodney,.. 

ill wait a day or so and ask the same question again and we can start over

1.8K Messages

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21.6K Points

ill wait a day or so and ask the same question again and we can start over

Albert Einstein- "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result”

Author “Color Management for Photographers"