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craig_mackenna's profile

32 Messages

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412 Points

Fri, Nov 20, 2020 8:28 PM

In progress

Camera Raw: "Apply previous settings" includes cropping?

I don't think that your Camera Raw architects ever edit pictures.  The "Apply Previous Settings" tool (in the three dots on the right side) had a different name in previous ACR versions.  Somehow it also now includes the cropping (if any) applied to the previous image.  It is almost never the case that two consecutive images need identical cropping, except in case of "no cropping".  Please eliminate cropping from the settings that are applied by this tool!!

Responses

Official Solution

Employee

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629 Messages

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11.5K Points

2 months ago

Craig and team: The "Apply Previous Settings" menu command in ACR 13.1 has a bug where the crop is included when ACR is applied via Camera Raw Filter inside of Photoshop. We will fix this in the next ACR release.

However, "Apply Previous Settings" is now intended to include the crop when ACR is invoked normally, from outside of the Filter context (e.g., when ACR is used to open raw files from Photoshop or Bridge).

If you want to apply settings from a previously-edited image conversion but wish to omit the crop, I recommend that you use either the Sync Settings... or Copy/Paste settings.

Of these two options, you'll probably find Copy/Paste more convenient, since:

(a) you can customize exactly which subset is copied (e.g., include global settings and spot removal, but exclude crop and local corrections), and

(b) those copied settings are preserved across multiple ACR sessions. That is, you can copy (a custom subset of) settings from one image, close ACR, re-open ACR with a different set of images, and paste the copied settings to any of those images.

462 Messages

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9K Points

Why is this the new behaviour?  Makes no sense to me.

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15 Messages

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614 Points

I too do not get the logic behind this change of a feature that always worked as intended. Unfortunately it's only in line with Adobe's trend to make a formerly effective ACR more mouse intensive. 

Applying the crop from one picture to another might make sense if two extremely similar pictures are edited side by side. But most likely never when finishing one batch of pictures and opening up another one with quite similar lighting conditions. That's when the old "Apply Previous Settings" came in very, vey handy. One click and I was starting these edits with the settings that were fine with the last picture of the last batch. 

With your suggested solution it takes the extra effort of saving the settings. What do I gain? Not convience, not efficiency, not speed. 

If I choose to ignore the change I am forced to delete the crop every time. Not once did the crop fit and was welcome. So what do I gain? Not convience, not efficiency, not speed. 

It's incomprehensible for me that a perfectly fine working feature was changed to an odd behaviour and the change is being sold to me as an improvement when all I get is more mouse travel (or shortcut work). 

You've mentioned work arounds but no the idea behind this change. I would love to hear it. 

(edited)

15 Messages

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412 Points

@madmanchan While you are fixing the "Apply Previous Settings" menu command in ACR 13.1 has a bug where the crop is included when ACR is applied via Camera Raw Filter inside of Photoshop.' why can you not fix "Apply Previous Settings" when ACR is invoked normally, from outside of the Filter context (e.g., when ACR is used to open raw files from Photoshop or Bridge).  As this is where your customers, like me, are more likely to be applying these batch processing tools in their workflow.
Why is "Apply Previous Settings" now intended to include the crop when ACR is invoked normally when it hasn't been intended since the beginning of ACR.

19 Messages

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272 Points

3 months ago

You can edit whatever settings you want applied, when you hit apply...

Please don't ever remove settings

32 Messages

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412 Points

Could you please explain what you mean by "Please don't ever remove settings"?

462 Messages

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9K Points

Sydney I think you are missing the point of the OP.  I agree with him and was also caught out by this.  "Apply Previous settings" should not include the crop.

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19 Messages

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272 Points

3 months ago

See attachment, does this address OP?

19 Messages

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272 Points

@craig_mackenna Please do not remove these settings

(edited)

462 Messages

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9K Points

Copy and paste settings is different to "Apply Previous Settings" which does exactly that to the image you are working on. 

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32 Messages

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412 Points

As Ash MIlls says, the window in your post is never seen when using the "Apply Previous Settings" tool.  I have never seen that window.

462 Messages

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9K Points

You can see that window when you sync settings between images in ACR.

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32 Messages

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412 Points

Syndey_Bishop, I still cannot understand what you mean by repeatedly saying "Please do not remove these settings".  Are you addressing this request to me or to Adobe?  If to me, I have no control over what's in Camera Raw or Photoshop, so I cannot remove anything.  If you are addressing Adobe, I can only guess that you don't want them to remove the checkboxes you have circled in red, from this "Paste" window that I have never seen or used.  I agree that they should leave this Paste window as it has been in the past, but by the same approach of LEAVING THINGS AS THEY WERE, I want them to remove cropping from the "Apply Previous Settings" command in the 3-dot  menu, which I assume you do not use.

305 Messages

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4.6K Points

3 months ago

I use LrC more than I use Camera Raw. When I click on the Previous button in LrC it always applies everything including the crop. If I only want to include specific adjustments I have to use the copy option and choose the adjustments that I want included. I believe it is intended to be that way.

77 Messages

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1.5K Points

Yes, it is working as designed.  Some people (including me) think this is a design flaw.

Yes, there are workarounds.  But why should we be forced to use workarounds?

Adobe keeps "fixing" things in ACR that are not broken in their continued attempt to make ACR into Lightroom.

305 Messages

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4.6K Points

You are not being forced to use a workaround. Just get accustomed to using ACR the way it is designed.

32 Messages

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412 Points

The Camera Raw command "Previous Conversion" which preceded Apply Previous Settings FOR MANY YEARS did not apply previous cropping!  So that was not the way ACR was designed.  To be accurate you might try saying "Get accustomed to using ACR the way it has been redesigned and renamed in the latest version".

(edited)

32 Messages

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412 Points

3 months ago

I have used Camera Raw for 10 to 15 years, and for all that time, cropping was never included in the Previous Conversion command.  I have never used Lightroom and have no desire to do so.  I have never used Paste Camera Raw Settings and have no desire to do so.  There may be some unusual situations in which a user want to apply a previous crop to another image, but I assert that this would be a very UNUSUAL situation, and not what most users and situations would want!  Such unusual situations can be handled by Paste Camera Raw Settings.  Put the Apply Previous Settings function back the way Previous Conversion worked, or add "Previous Conversion" to the 3-dots menu without applying cropping!

(edited)

19 Messages

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272 Points

I have been using ACR since 2007. I almost never use the apply previous command because it leads to mistakes. Copy and paste is more precise as a habit to get into, because you may not remember what was "previous" (let's say you stepped away for coffee and got sidetracked)

If you are a professional, then you are working in an un-precise way using Apply Previous, because where there is no way to "undo" mistakes (at least, I work from Bridge there is no undo). If you overwrite settings with unintended consequences whilst culling 1000s of images it can lead to anywhere from 15 minutes to days of downtime.

Congratulations, you are now a professional

15 Messages

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412 Points

As a professional who has been using PS since v2.5 I can tell you that if use the "Apply Previous Settings" tool in ACR and it is not the one you wanted, applying the 'reset default' setting in the same menu does just what it says and undoes your mistake in the same time it took you to apply them. I must admit that I never open and save more than 50 images at a time in ACR, and I am not sure why anyone would be trying to edit 1000s of images in ACR at a time.
I tend to shoot stock these days and though I may want the same settings applied to 50 images, they are going to be a mixture of portrait and horizontal shots with a variety of different crops, and having ACR turn my workflow from the press of a button to some complicated workaround is not an improvement in my book. :-(

32 Messages

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412 Points

Never a "proferssional"!  I am just a hacker!  🙂

(edited)

19 Messages

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272 Points

Reset to default is not an undo, it takes the image back to default settings. In other words you will lose any other processing work you may have done. An Undo would be a nice to have for sure!

I go through and do crops on everything before processing further. So in my case I would lose the crop, possibly more. 

The reason you may want to apply one blanket group of settings to 50 or 1000s of images (not in ACR, but in Bridge or LR), is because you may have already manually metered and white balanced your scene in camera prior to shooting. In that case all you really need to do in post is apply the same exposure and WB settings across all images.

(edited)

462 Messages

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9K Points

"an Undo would be nice to have" - in ACR, if the Previous Settings were wrong, cmd-z (control-z) works as an undo.

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19 Messages

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272 Points

Right, but as I said an Undo is not currently available from within Bridge, whilst culling large sets of images and applying ACR presets for example.

One *could* but I don't think *should* try to load 50 or 100 images into ACR, because you are loading a lot more into memory

(edited)

15 Messages

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412 Points

Hi Sydney

I think we are talking at cross-terms, the OPs post is not about using Bridge or LR, 'whilst culling large sets of images and applying ACR presets'.

It is about using ACR to process RAW file, and using the "Apply Previous Settings" tool in ACR, not in Bridge or LR.

My workflow when processing RAW files in the previous ACR and I have a batch of files that have been taken under similar circumstances, I process the first image, exposure, colour balance/ grading etc, then crop and save, done. Then I load the next 20 to 50 image, select all, apply previous settings, (which didn't used to include crop), then work my way through all the files singly to crop, then select all and save.


This ability to 'apply previous settings' without including the crop is what Adobe have changed in the latest incarnation of ACR, and what we are unhappy about!

There is, of course, a workaround, but that just adds time to the workflow and as a professional, time is money.

32 Messages

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412 Points

3 months ago

I just had a thought as to what some of you might be saying.  Is the operation of Apply Previous Settings controlled by what boxes are checked in the Paste menu that Sydney_Bishop posted?  SB, sorry I spelled you name wrong earlier!

462 Messages

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9K Points

@craig_mackenna 

No, "Apply Previous Settings" ignores what the last copy/paste of settings was set to.   - So if the copied settings had no crop, but the previous settings did have a crop, when you now "Apply Previous Settings" it applies the crop.  Which is silly.

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15 Messages

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614 Points

3 months ago

Well, the problem is you - according to Adobe. From what I learned reading this forum Adobe sees a group of users who stubbornly refuse to recognize Lightroom as the holy grail. A minority group since trizillions of ACR users are delighted to see their trusted RAW editor being brought up to the date by being morphed in a LR clone. Cries by these bone-headed old-timers that the efficiency of editing in ACR was crippled by being replaced with odd LR behavior are simply laughed off. 

I am one of these bone heads who simply can't believe what mess ACR is now compairing it to last non-LR infused version. Way more mouse movement, stupid crop tool, crop included in last stettings. The list goes on. Often I wonder who tried this software before it was released. If at all. Most likely not somebody who was truely relying on ACR as a daily driver. Because then Adobe would rather have had to think about giving LR some ACR greatness, like a shortcut for a new brush or remembering brush settings when moving to the next picture. But who are we stupid stubborn few who refuse to accept that Adobe knows better. 

32 Messages

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412 Points

Oliver, I like your thoughts but you sound so cynical!

15 Messages

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614 Points

Well, just disillusioned by the official answers I read here. 

462 Messages

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9K Points

When they actually even listen to users.

(edited)

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1 Message

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60 Points

2 months ago

Jumping in on this. Maybe my problem is something different? But for the past couple of versions of ACR, accessed from within Photoshop, this is what I'm seeing.

How is this not a bug? Are there settings where I can control this?

TIA!

(Sorry if this image's text isn't big enough to read... Seems I'm at the mercy of this site's downscaling)

32 Messages

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412 Points

I have only used Apply Previous Settings between images with the same aspect ratio (3:2 like a "35mm" sensor), so I can't tell whether your problem is exactly the same as mine.  The Edit Settings pane does not affect the Apply Previous Settings operation.  The last ACR that did not include cropping in this operation called the command Previous Conversion, not Apply Previous Settings.  If you want to know whether your problem and mine are the same, just edit two images of the same size.  Crop the first one, then Apply Previous Settings to the second.

462 Messages

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9K Points

I don't believe anyone from Adobe has yet noticed/openly acknowledged these issues.

This is my signature.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.

32 Messages

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412 Points

2 months ago

The beauty of the old method was that settings could be fine-tuned at any image(s) in the course of a day's shooting, e.g. as the light changes or as the subject changes.   "'Apply Previous Settings' is now intended to include the crop when ACR is invoked normally" ruins this beauty, because in our work, the exact same crop is ALMOST NEVER applied to successive images.  Under what conditions or workflow would anyone want to do that?  Why can't you keep Previous Conversion as it was in every previous ACR since the first one was carried down the mountain, and also keep Apply Previous Settings which is "Previous Conversion + previous crop"?  There's even nice semantics to that course, in that a "conversion" intuitively includes exposure, contrast, white point, etc., while "settings" include those plus cropping.

(edited)

15 Messages

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412 Points

2 months ago

"However, "Apply Previous Settings" is now intended to include the crop when ACR is invoked normally, from outside of the Filter context (e.g., when ACR is used to open raw files from Photoshop or Bridge)."  WTF????
Surely this is when you will be working on batches, and will not want the crop on every picture. This change makes no sense what so ever. Come on Adobe pull your finger out and make this work for the benefit of the customer.

32 Messages

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412 Points

Thank you for your support, Derek.

15 Messages

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412 Points

So annoying that they change something like that and don't seem to realise that it is a problem. Adobe's Offical Solution is a long-winded workaround that doesn't solve actual problem. :-(

462 Messages

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9K Points

Someone at Adobe obviously didn't like that there were two different ways of achieving a workflow with images.  They decided to make everything like Lr, at the expense of all of us that CHOOSE to use ACR because it was not Lr.   That we all pay for the privilege of having features changed/removed/moved sideways under our feet is doubly annoying.

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