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4 Messages

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1.3K Points

Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:40 PM

Implemented

128

Photoshop: Support scalable user interface UI for high resolution monitors

I'm using a high resolution monitor(2560x1600). As a result, all the the toolbar fonts and menu fonts are small and hard to see. I do not want to lower the screen resolution as this would defeat the purpose of this monitor.. Will the new CS6 have the ability to increase font sizes to accommidate Hi-Res monitors?

Thanks

Ron Acevedo

Responses

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

8 years ago

the adobe UI supersedes the windows settings completely for most apps.

As a result we have reinventions of the wheel multiple times and they aren't even consistent with each other within the ecosystem (photoshop supports enlargement of fonts, whereas Bridge does not)

One would think they'd just pick one interface and run with it across all the apps, you know, cuz they're so busy and all, and interested in streamlining?

There was a time when adobe apps darned near all behaved the same way with only tool changes... but everything went to off on it's own tangent right around the time they bought macromedia.

4 Messages

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214 Points

8 years ago

I can't believe Adobe have not fixed this problem already. CS7?
FIX IT PLEASE ADOBE, no more squinting (squinting and straining causes blindness, seriously) (Office 2013 fonts are beautiful)

8 Messages

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294 Points

7 years ago

Hello,

Has Adobe CC incorporated scalable interface, made ANY changes at all to the interface to make things larger or easier to see?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Photoshop already did that with 13.1 / 13.0.2 on Macintosh.
Windows is more complicated, and we're still talking to Microsoft about how they can make it work correctly.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

that is a blatant lie.
you can simply make larger icons.
photoshop - and any other interface on the planet needs only to fit within the "window" boundaries.
Menu text can be enlarged via the the system font size options - but NO Abode has proprietary font controls, so YOU are responsible for the inability for ALL adobe apps not having the same feature as PS does for font enlargement - not microsoft.

I can make illustrator "object handles" marginally larger in prefs, albeit that is poorly implemented as well - but PLAINLY I can use a preferences within illustrator, MADE by Adobe to make something BIGGER

so there is absolutely no reason why you can't add the option for larger icons for the tools as well as a preference "switch" large vs small.

I swear you guys spend more time trying to come up with excuses than you do solutions.

And apparently you think we're all idiots.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Chris, removing my post about your lie, simply proves your comment is a lie.

It was on topic and neither inflammatory nor argumentative, and did not violate any forum rules.

7 Messages

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192 Points

some of us saw it before the defensive removal. Adobe's focus is on becoming
an online only fee based resourse. They may eventually fix this problem, but
marketing matters more than users health or comfort. CC is a marketing masterpiece- what used to be updates and bug fixes is now exclusive buyer content.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

I concur.
I was surprised at the removal as well as it's not like we don't get email notifications containing the comments, so like it or not, it's out there.
Interestingly, there is a photo above of photoshop on windows 8. Note the "title bar" "X" close/minimize buttons of PS compared to the "close" button of the preferences window.

You can plainly see Adobe has modified the windows interface to display it's own "glass button style" to the windows window, and did not apply this to the preferences window.

This means Adobe itself is creating the interface icons - not Microsoft.
It's also why we can modify our windows with "desktop themes".
MS just gives us a shell to work with.

I'm tempted to edit the adobe icon files with larger icons to simply prove the point it can be done. But without additional coding skills, I have to way to make a preference to "switch back and forth" - but I may be able to make two "large and small" files that I "rename" prior to launch.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

You're making a lot of bad guesses based on very incomplete information.
And "bigger icons" won't work.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

actually, as I sit here examining code in PS and Illustrator, I can plainly see Adobe is following very little of the "windows" interface rules. There's quite a bit of frankencode in here.
So you know what Chris?
You're absolutely right, I'm making a lot of guesses working under the assumption you guys are playing by the OS rules, knew what you were doing, and open to suggestions.
As I see here, plainly not on all of the above.

So perhaps it really IS too complicated for Adobe to make "Bigger Icons".

I can't even right click a title bar to get a simple "close" command.

Now that I'm looking under the hood, I don't know whether I should be appalled, be embarrassed on Adobe's behalf, or feel robbed.

Then again, you guys went and reinvented all the interface rules, so really you SHOULD be able to make "bigger icons".

I would have though fixing these primary school basic issues would be more important that releasing a new photoshop with "bigger icons" for only subscribers.
Might wanna rethink that and offer it to the people who paid full price huh?
'Cuz me thinks they won't be doing that again.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Fantastic way to treat a paying customer.
You're embarrassing yourself with all the deleting.

I made posts with facts about the issue at hand, and you keep deleting them yet making comments about them. You keep posting comments about things we are not talking about.

Yes bigger icons would work, and retina support requires that Adobe make them, Adobe has, now offer that for regular monitors because as retina or regular - the. icons. are. too. small.
Fact: PS and other Adobe apps don't follow the OS rules for drawing windows and other elements.
Fact. Because of this we cannot enlarge things through the OS's native preferences. Example : "Ribbon icons enlarge when we ask windows 7/8 to "change size of all items" (control panel/display/ select a size)

Fact. retina displays are simply double density and higher screens, and require "larger" density icons to make the same "perceived" size across all/any monitor.
- so if an image is a half inch on one monitor it's a half inch on the other - but the image size is x pixels on a normal monitor and xx pixels on a retina.

Fact: you say PS 13.1 has retina support, therefore it has higher density icons that would be larger on a normal monitor.

Let us have those icons for our tool bars on our normal 72/96 dpi monitors.

Please.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please try to stay on topic. And please don't try to speculate about OS APIs and code that you have absolutely no idea about.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

I elaborated multiple times on the post you "left in place above" to supply you with "an idea of what every single person on this thread is talking about"

I'll also put my knowledge about computers, UI and coding against yours any day sir.

I choose to explain things in plain english, with real world and understandable examples of their implementation because this particular thread is a topic that can be understood by a general user when the issue is discussed in terms that are easily identifiable without calling their intelligence into question.

I'll also remind you that each and every post I made was about a scalable UI, and you have persisted in talking about retina displays which is not at all related to this topic.

Personally, I find your own comments to be towing the company line and completely unhelpful and derisive.

You even mentioned a 13.1 "retina solution" to someone who obviously paid full/upgrade price for PS 13.04 that is not in their reach because they are not on a subscription service. That is simply insulting as it not only offers them no solution, it implies they made the wrong purchase that frankly pays your wages.

I would request that you turn this thread over to someone more capable, or at the very least, someone who will treat people with a tad bit more respect. This behavior of yours is a common theme in all of your monitored threads.

ps: retina display graphics are not a scalable solution either, people on retinas have the same small icon issues.

34 Messages

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798 Points

Chris, you mention that you're in discussions with Microsoft and that "bigger icons won't work." I'm guessing both comments refer to making Photoshop respond to Window's icon/text scaling options?

It'd be a neat feature, but isn't it insanely complicated? As you mention, it's not just icons/text but also windows and tabs that have to scale. As far as I know there is NO (non-Microsoft) program that can do that - many of my programs respond to those settings by letting resizable text disappear off the edge of fixed-size windows.

I for one would rather control it manually within Photoshop anyway. I'm not a programmer, but a checkbox in Preferences>Interface that makes toolboxes xyz% larger and switches to different/larger icon/swatch/etc assets seems a lot less stressful than waiting on Microsoft.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

There are problems with the Microsoft scaling APIs that prevent us from doing a simple percentage scaling across the application, and even make it difficult to do a 2x scaling correctly. Again, we are talking to Microsoft about this, and continuing to work on solutions. It just isn't nearly as simple as it sounds from the outside.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

yes I see how adjusting UI font sizing in PS's preferences is a microsoft innovation that Adobe can't seem to get a handel on - let alone be able to make a seperate dat file containing largers icons for "retina displays".
Because MS wrote PS, and PS wasn't written to ignore OS scaling, or to detect retina displays.
PS is wonderful, perfect and flawless and completely works as expected all the time, and boo to the two OS's that PS has to run on that haven't changed in their cores for over a decade and continue to be so overly complicated and elusive in the abitlity to code for them that no one has any earthly undestanding of where to begin.

I understand things take time, it has only been a year since this thread started, but it's the lying that really bothers me. That's all Chris, just your lying.

34 Messages

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798 Points

Jeez, what is that guy's problem? Kinda glad that comment was deleted. I'm genuinely curious about how all this works and I appreciate you answering my questions, Chris.

I understand why scaling is tricky, for various reasons, especially Retina with the some-things-are-scaled-some-aren't confusion. What I was getting at in my question was not scaling but multiple UI configurations, similar to the way you can click a button to change between UI layouts in Bridge, or the way you can click a button to switch between a "ribbon" layout and traditional pull-down menus in AutoCAD. Why couldn't you just allow the user to switch between two UI "layouts" that were, in this case, the same layout at different sizes?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

That's just a method for switching the layouts -- that's the trivial part after you've done all the work for making the UI work at different scales.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Hi Lee
my "problem" is that chris is not answering anyone's questions. You yourself have said things that I have already stated in the posts he deleted. Like an option in prefs to enlarge things like the UI fonts have.

I've been trying to eleborate on why his statements are not only eroneous but imply we as customers are too stupid to understand the "the issues" at hand in enlarging the UI. My additional issue is he's systematically deleting posts that are on topic and expose his behaviour.

His answers to you and all of us above are double talk and do not directly answer, explain or justify Adobe's lack of attention and derisive comments to us on this basic UI request.

His answers have been hostile, dimissive and retorical, and span multiple threads in this forum. His go to behaviour is to attack.
In short, he's a Mod who's a troll.
The thousands I have spent on Adobe alone should dictate that as a customer I get better treatment than being bullied by a Mod with a delete happy finger to suit his own agenda.
The fact you also have likely spend thousands on Adobe should dictate you also receive better replies, and general treatment than a "there there little one - let the big boys worry about coding" replies. Like the one he just gave you.

and 3, 2, 1, my post is deleted.

8 Messages

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294 Points

Thank you for answering my question. I guess I don't understand why it's so difficult either. However, I am not a Windows programmer. As an end user all I can do right now is to move to another program, which I have. My issue is not with any hi-dpi or "retina" type support, mine is with physical size of the interface. Let me see if I can explain this better. The competitor's vector/raster suite's interfaces are quite customizable. They allow the user to choose Small, Medium, and Large for toolbar icons, and most other interface items. My issue has to do with physical size in pixels of the interface icons and text, but maybe that is still to vague, so I will try explaining below.

Just to give you a rough idea of the size differences in the competing program's icons and nodes, I roughly measured them. My resolution is 1920x1080 on a 17" screen. I don't pretend to be an expert at measuring interface icons with scientific precision, but I used screenshots of Illustrator and the Competing Program, and opened them in Photoshop. I roughly measured one of the toolbar icons, the magnifying glass. I did not include blank space around the icon.

Adobe Illustrator's magnifying glass icon from the toolbar was approx.17w x 17h, the competitor's approx. 18w x 18h. However, the competitor's icons are sharper and have better color and line contrast so they are much easier to see. The competitor's Medium magnifying glass icon is approximately 25x25 pixels, the large is approximately 33x33 pixels. The latter is way way larger than I need. If I set toolbar icons to "Medium, then the whole toolbar changes from 18x18 icons, to 25x25 icons, so the graphical icons are bigger, and the toolbar becomes longer and wider in appearance.

I feel if they can do this, then Adobe can too. If they want to.

The competitor's menu and toolbar text (File,Edit, Image, etc), and the drop downs for those, as well as almost all the text in the interface listens to my Windows settings and displays text at a size I can see without squinting. I have the toolbar on medium, but everything else (there are dockable toolbars at the top with loads of icons and text) on small. This setting satisfies me.

Additionally, the selected/on hover nodes in a path are also approximately twice as large (A: 5x5, CP:11x11) , with handle ends approximately three times as large as Adobe's (A:5x5 circle, CP:11x15 arrowhead). This and other visual cues and variations make a huge difference after staring at nodes and paths for hours on end. I know this thread is about Photoshop, but I have to compare apples to apples, and Photoshops interface, most probably, is exactly the same size as Illustrator's.

Due to the above, I can work for hours without migraines in the competitor's software. I had to move from Illustrator for my health and to get work done. The interface led me to stray but the other changes currently at Adobe, which are not on topic, have led me to stay with the competitor for now.

Thank you for listening. My hope is that this explains my issues a little better, provides feedback for possible future improvements, and that this has been helpful in this discussion.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, that is part of what we are hoping to address, in addition to higher DPI displays.
And yes, there are frequently hidden complications that only the programmers see when they start trying to use the OS APIs that are supposed to provide functionality like that. Yes, it's always more complicated under the hood.

37 Messages

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606 Points

7 years ago

It should be obvious to all by now that Adobe will not fix the UI of this segment of their product line anytime soon. Instead they will wait till it is too late, when their customer base has left for competing products. Only then will they offer an upgrade for megabucks. Smart move Adobe, just “Let them eat (some more) cake”.

5 Messages

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160 Points

7 years ago

How do I get version 13.1 for Mac
I bought CS6 in February and it says 13.0.4 is the latest version update?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

13.1 is the subscription/creative cloud release.
13.0.4 has the same Retina support, without the new subscription features.

5 Messages

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160 Points

I agree completely with Axioms comment about Adobe having blown it regarding customer satisfaction. Our "Sr. Computer Scientist" needs a lesson in customer service as indeed I do feel insulted by the way he condescended to tell me although I paid serious money for the CS6 premium suite (only 4 months ago) I really do not matter to Adobe and will not be getting any support or updates.

Believe me when I say it - I will NOT be buying anything from Adobe again.
I guess the policy change of sky high monthly rental or nothing for Adobe products takes care of that anyway.

Goodnight Adobe.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Small problem: I, nor anyone else here, has said anything like that.

5 Messages

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160 Points

So When do I get 13.1 update for mac?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

See my first reply to your post, above.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

I'll paraphrase with your actual words :

13.1 is the subscription/creative cloud release.
so if you have this you have retina

13.0.4 has the same Retina support, without the new subscription features.
if you have this you don't get other stuff

If you have any version you cannot scale the interface anyway.

You mention no way for him to get it even after he told you his version.
You gave him no hope he would get it - say next week during regular purchased media update.
You implied he could only have it if he was a subscriber to CC.

I'm on windows, so I don't get it anyway?

Meanwhile, with my lack of knowledge I've already begun decompiling your resource .dat files in the "program files" / PS (64 bit) / Resources folder
and I'm going to try stuffing the "hi rez" .png icons into the low rez .dat file to force PS to use the larger icons ...

as I mentioned in my uniformed and deleted posts about your retina display vs windows vs enlargement issues and the misinformation you've been giving us, the low rez "eye dropper" is 32x32 pixels.. and your highrez eyedropper is 64x64... I'm looking right at them.

If I can trick your frakencode into recognizing it, I'll release it for all.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

and neither version helps Martin's original question of
"Even when the Windows DPI setting is adjusted (also known as "large fonts", which is not what it is) the GUI (and text) in Adobe products remain tiny. "

so since you're talking about people remaining on topic, please Adobe explain how retina support helps him?

5 Messages

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160 Points

I asked when I could get version 13.1 which according to our 'expert' solves the problems - all he said is see above - that is no answer.
Either I am missing something in this blog or our 'expert' is being evasive.
If I really am missing something please show me the real answer.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

hi martin
I have to say today degraded a bit for me on here.

I'll try to give you a clear answer from my adventures on this topic. Since I doubt you'll get more from Adobe.

Retina support is in your application currently - Chris was awkwardly saying that OTHER features specific to Creative Cloud subscriptions were available in 13.1
So essentially, you don't get a bell and whistle - but you DO have retina support.
Now then - this doesn't help you scale the PS interface up or down which is why we are all here drumming on the desk - all you can do is enlarge fonts.

On the Mac side of things - there is a thread where people WITH a retina display find that their PS has not detected this and it displays the regular icons - which end up being even SMALLER icons.

One of my deleted posts described this phenomena, so you'll have to read through the emails this forum may send you for the nitty gritty on pixel sizes - but in short - retina displays have twice the pixels (or so) and icons need to be "twice as large in pixels" to give you the same physical size you want : example :if an image is 100 pixels wide = 1/4 inch on a normal monitor you need a 200 pixel image to give the same 1/4 inch size on a retina display.
Put the 100 pixel normal 1/4 inch image on a retina and it shrinks to 1/8 of an inch... see?

Now.
Some mac users found that there was an issue with their actual user account and PS. The OSX or PS was not reporting the correct monitor attached to the computer - so PS kept loading regular resolution icons so everything was really small.

The solution was to delete the user account and make a new one from scratch.
here is that link : http://forums.adobe.com/message/4967368

if you are on a windows computer like me, I can SEE that there are hi res icons available as I mentioned in another post above... now I just need to trick PS to load them. But I need to get some sleep now.

Anyway, If I can make the trick work, the larger icons would load at a larger size because I do NOT have a retina monitor... but I do have a massive monitor. So since I sit further away, the larger icons should allow less eye strain. I have 20/20 vision, but the tiny icons just hurt after hours of staring.

So. If you have a mac - you have pretty retina icons with your 13.0.4.
You may simply not have it "working" as mentioned in the link above.

Easy to compare is have a normal screen laptop beside you and see if the icons "look" the same size. The only real difference is you would see "pixelation" on the normal monitor, where the retina would be silky smooth.

In NO way though can you currently scale the icons.

My comment that Adobe blaming MS for size issues is false because I can plainly see the icons are control by the PS code itself and is completely unrelated to windows. And trust me, I love to blame MS for everything - when it's their fault. So sadly this time it's all on Adobe.

And the final rub?
The icons are right HERE I'm staring at them. SO why can't I just have a preference to choose them?!?!
A non retina mac user and non retina PC user could have these icons NOW.
Heck, make one more third file so the retina people can enlarge too!
one normal - one retina / large normal - one large retina

and radio button selection in prefs with "restart PS for changes"

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

cuz if you can "auto detect" a retina monitor and load the larger icons, why can't we have a check box for a manual option
- you know, like the check box to use my massive video card here... how is it easier to "auto detect" a retina display to auto choose icon sizes than it is to detect an HD5870 to use OpenCL?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Because using the Retina display is not just about switching icons.
Because MacOS tries to do a lot of the UI scaling, and any UI scaling done in the application has to exactly match the OS.
And because icons only account for about 5 percent of the UI.

If you want the feature, just ask for the feature. We've already said plenty of times that we're working on it.

But trying to reverse engineer something you have no earthly understanding of, and trying to tell experienced engineers who do know what is going on how to do their job -- is really not helping your cause.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

firstly, retina support would be nice i guess, but i want bigger icons in general.
secondly I don't understand how your posts aren't deleted for name calling.
thirdly i don't have a cause there buddy I have a request like everyone else here for Adobe to fix the issue and stop making lame excuses.
fourthly, again, I'll put my experience against yours any day :)

addendum, perhaps you should try wiki or google or maybe even bing to update YOUR concepts of things since the rest of the world already has these enlargement options. Maybe I have no earthly grasp of Adobe Code because it's so poorly written?

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

7 years ago

Adobe seems to be very confused over what this thread about.
Since I have called out Chris twice, I shall do it again with all the information - in plain english so that he can know how uniformed I am.

Our issue is "in app icon sizes are too small" and there is no way to enlarge them - Adobe is saying the issue is resolved for retina displays on Macs and microsoft windows code is magically suddenly too complicated to implement an enlargement feature.

For those of you using Firefox, Chrome, Safari and most versions of IE, I direct you all to your tool bars. Please right click, "customize" - as if you're going to add or remove the feature icons like "back or search or etc." and click the options to "use large/small icons" - with or without text, and so on and you can plainly see that free web browsers can do what Adobe cannot.

Now then.
Icons, and icons in other things like your windows (finder). You can have your OS of choice enlarge all icons and text and it affects for most run of the mill software as well. But almost all Adobe apps ignore these options that are built into the OS because they want you to use their interface.
One would guess that this is so that all their apps "look and feel the same".
That's a fail too by the way Adobe, but hey, that a whole other thread.

Let's lastly look at what the "retina display is" - it's a display that simply had "double" the pixel density. So for ease of everything I shall use "iPhones" for reference and their icon sizes to illustrate our issue - and Adobe's "stonewalling" solution.

A regular iPhone 3G has fingertip sized icons that are 57 pixels across.
A 4 or 5 iPhone has the SAME perceptually sized icon of "one fingertip large" BUT the screen has twice the density. So this means developers needed to scale up their imagery 2x.
So on a retina display that makes the same perceptual finger tip icon 114 pixels wide.

Adobe may have provide support for retina displays, but "all they did" was enlarge everything 2x. So for all their efforts of "actually being able to make icons larger" they stopped at making them look identical on a 17" retina side by side a 17 normal monitor.

Sure the retina display looks much much nicer - but the icons are still the size of your finger tip.

So Adobe (we meet again)
It's very nice that you have made the same perceptually sized icons for retina displays. When illustrator works on my iPad, I'll thank you, but I still won't be able to use it because the icons are small. By too small I mean exactly the same size as an my non retina display which are, um, too small.

Since you have actually proven you can enlarge icons on the user interface, please enlarge them again and give us the option to "enable ":regular / large" in prefs since you cannot seem to use the built in OS ability to do this.

You see Chris, I'm not uninformed (I love the "reasons" you deleted my posts - side by side the "forum rules I didn't break) and I'm not stupid, and I'm again "calling you out" and any one else in your office who thinks that any of your responses over the last 24 hours - and earlier this year were in any way honest.

Simply offering Retina Support PROVES that you can make larger icons.

What simply baffles me is why Adobe would rather belittle, lie and fight a common sense and useful request than simply saying hey, yeah, we can do that, it's not like you're asking use to add a permanent save location for creative cloud files.

Adobe Administrator

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15.1K Messages

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288K Points

7 years ago

Hey gang,

The engineering team is aware of the feature request to support HiDPI for Windows. Supporting HiDPI is a priority for our team. We'll update the topic when we have more details to share.

Thanks.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Hi Jeff, welcome!
If you don't mind me asking, when you say adding support for HiDPI on Windows - do you mean making a scalable UI for any resolution monitor?
Or simply making Icons appear the same size as they are now on a "retina" monitor?

See, we need the ability to enlarge the UI in general - regardless of monitor resolutions. It's pretty much what all this is about.

The examples citing larger displays were to illustrate that the UI gets even "smaller" as you use large monitors, and though we can enlarge the UI fonts, we cannot enlarge the icons to allow for a more comfortable work flow.

I only ask as there seems to be a large amount of misdirection from another "employee" as they keep talking about retina support and other "complications" - when the rest of us are pretty much simply asking to make things bigger or smaller - like the UI "font size" preference.

We have asked for progress, and keep being told only about retina support progress - which is not what we are asking about.

Adobe Administrator

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15.1K Messages

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288K Points

Hi Axiom, Windows is a different beast than Mac, but you should be able to achieve what you describe in the future - Sorry, I can be more specific. We'll update the topic when we have more details to share. Again, supporting HiDPI is a priority for our team.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

37 Messages

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606 Points

What are needed here are updates to products in the field as well as new releases. In comparison, a description of vapor-ware serves no useful purpose. A commitment to release an UI updates by dates certain, followed by interim progress reports, might save your day. For any other solution, Adobe is going to have to sustain an additional loss in market share.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

We cannot commit anything about Microsoft's release dates.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

yes, Jeff already said that in a nicer way and William here was talking about adobe's road map and how it would be nice as a customer to know when to expect things so that Adobe itself is "accountable"
Joomla does this and it's used by millions and it's free.

So saying it's Microsoft's ball is not accurate nor fair - especially since there is no UI change planned for Windows at the moment as it's been the exact same since windows XP - I can use Win XP "themes" in win 8 so the UI isn't really different "under the hood". The only change is that win8 "removed features" like Adobe did with the window tile button and hid them in other locations - or turned over their control to developers, like, um, Adobe.

Again, since Adobe controls it's own UI it is in Adobe's hands to rectify the issue. Other software non Adobe described in this thread does this, so it's not an OS issue that is insurmountable., it simply requires some attention.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

You might not be aware that there are significant changes needed from Microsoft, and we have been working with them on this issue for quite some time. Yes, there are quite a few "under the hood" changes in Win8 that are not apparent to the end user, and that help get us all closer to useful UI scaling.

This request is a priority for us, but we are are dependent on the OS for functionality that is not available at this time.

When we have details that we can share, we will update this topic.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

oh, huh.
Well. No, I guess I had no clue whatsoever that Microsoft required changes in any way.

I'm sure they are working diligently to improve their services for you

Well... in the meantime, maybe you could chat with the people over at Corel...
http://coreldraw.com/forums/t/33935.aspx

They also seem very helpful.

i think they use some strange newfangled technology called, um.. XML or something for something called a user interface?

http://painterfactory.com/blogs/dans_...

See, they didn't worry about "scaling" within the operating system per say, they just made physically larger icons, and a preference for the user to choose small, medium, or large - and apparently for those much smarter than me, the ability to swap out icons, so a person could make their own.

So regardless of MS's issues, um, Corel found a work around, and a rather "simple one" at that.

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195.8K Points

Again, Microsoft is aware of the problems, and we have been working with them to get a solution to the OS problems and missing functionality.

And the links you gave are for simple icon customization - which really doesn't even start to solve the scalable UI problems.

Again, when we have details that we can share, we will update this topic.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Hi Chris,
let's try this in a different way...
Let's simply assume everyone here actually understands the basic issues a coder faces when dealing with an OS and move forward.

I understand that a scalable UI is complex when it needs to rely on the OS API interfaces, however, in the case of the Adobe UI, this is not necessarily the case.
The primary issue mentioned in this thread has always been about having larger Icons. In almost all of the case, the request is for regular 72/96 dpi monitors.

It is Adobe itself who constantly talks about the scalability issue as being an OS problem, and I completely agree.

But, and I stress, please remember that most of us do not have a retina monitor, we are simply asking for a larger UI option WITHIN the Adobe UI.

Let me ask please:
When we enlarge the fonts in photoshop using the built in prefs to enlarge the fonts, is photoshop using the font scaling of the OS or is it using it's own internal font scaling option?

I ask this as the UI itself alters slightly to accommodate the change of the font size.

My thoughts are that the enlargement is an internal operation outside of the scope of the OS API's.

I suspect this because:
when I change the font size OS Wide with it's own font sizing method, other applications and windows scale as expected, but 90% of Adobe program fonts do not. This implies that the Adobe UI's are, for the most part, completely independent "inside" the OS "window".

So what I'm proposing is that Adobe simply - physically - make four sizes of Icons (small, medium, large, xxl) - all of which are native resolution of 72/96 dpi, but are taller and wider in physical pixels. And allow the palettes and internal windows to "enlarge" to accommodate them.

This would solve the readability issue of almost everyone here - and be a manual solution to use the "largest" icons on a retina display.

It essentially solves the problem - albeit it's manually accomplished.

It allows the user to enlarge via prefs the font and the icons, and allows Adobe to not have to fret with the OS UI limitations.

It would be interesting to have you Adobe techs chime in on this aspect of the topic and put the Retina display distraction you're focused on aside for a while.

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195.8K Points

You really do not know the coding issues involved. That's why I'm trying to explain (at a high level, as allowed by NDAs) what is involved.

No, this is not just an internal application issue.
We do need fixes and additions to the Microsoft APIs. Microsoft understands this, agrees, and is working on it.
We want scalability, but are being held back by some OS issues (plus, it's a lot
of work). There are more issues involved, but this one is the biggest roadblock.

We are trying to make this work, but throwing in a bunch of red herrings is not helping your case. We will make this work, once we can, and we'll let you know when we have more information we can share.

34 Messages

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798 Points

You have multiple UI configurations in Bridge, so surely you can understand our frustration that the same isn't possible in Photoshop.

37 Messages

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606 Points

7 years ago

Simply put, Adobe programming staff wants to pass their 'Monkey' on to Microsoft. There is sufficient technology already in place to facilitate a fix to the UI scaling problem. Why they are not getting on with the fix is clear: management has not built a fire under those responsible for the fix. This is evidenced by the lack of commitment that would include a plan of tasks, a timeline of milestones, and a budget to get the job done.

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195.8K Points

No, we've been working on this for a long time now, and found problems in the OS APIs. Microsoft is working on it.

We have repeatedly said that we are pursuing this - but sometimes there are fundamental OS issues that we simply cannot work around.

4 Messages

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100 Points

7 years ago

Chris Cox // Your coders are fooling you. You can do it even with MS-DOS. What OS problem? nonsense. And MS is fooling you too. They hates custom UI, so they will not offer customizable standard UI forever. They just can't say they are not offering them. And current large setting fonts are too small even with low resolution monitors. By the way, How good is your eyesight?

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195.8K Points

Again, we (the developers on Photoshop) are working with Microsoft on this. Nobody is being fooled, and we're telling you as much as we can without violating NDAs.

I've needed glasses for about 15 years now (and need to update my prescription soon).

If you can't see the fonts in Photoshop on a normal resolution screen - then something is wrong with your system and making things draw incorrectly (we have seen that happen to a few people - usually solved with a system reinstall, sometimes by removing bad utilities). The default font is readable on a normal resolution screen. The medium and large fonts are designed for higher resolution monitors or people with bad eyesight. Again, if Photoshop's UI seems smaller than most applications - something is wrong with the system.

The unsolved problem is for people with really bad eyesight, or high resolution screens. That's where we need to scale all of the UI (not just fonts and icons), and need Microsoft's cooperation.

4 Messages

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100 Points

I feel like talking to a wall. My 5 systems are all ok. Small small small small and small. I said small not unreadable. And most of applications have scalable UI NOW. Seriously,what the h*** are you talking about?

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195.8K Points

Most applications do not yet have scalable UI on Windows - partly because there are issues with the scaling support in Windows. And we are working with Microsoft to get that resolved.

Please read the previous responses in this topic for more information.

4 Messages

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100 Points

Scaling doesn't need os support at all. I was an windows programmer.So stop saying bullshits and just explain with professional language. I think it is you who don't have any idea on this issue at all. Get somebody actuallyknows something plz.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

7 years ago

I continue to think there are two different view points being discussed here.
And it's likely limited to the interpretation of "scalable".
It appears that adobe is considering the definition to be a system wide thing - or an auto detect based on monitor resolution - and this would be true in considering detection of a hi Rez display - which is an issue windows suffers.
But there is a second way to define "scalable" which most posters here are referring to - the option to "enlarge" icons within the ui itself.
When we look at the adobe interfaces, we have options dealing with the program and a few offer the option to enlarge fonts within the program. The adobe ui changes and allows this to occur. The rest of the os is unaffected.
So since adobe made icons for their tools and other elements at a certain size they could easily have made larger icons.
So when we ask for larger icons, we now understand that an all inclusive is option is complicated. But we are asking if within the ui itself the images used to represent tools and options could be made larger.
Illustrator allows for handles to be enlarge. This is the adobe ui's choice, photoshop allows enlarged ui fonts.
Again, it's adobe's choice.
So if we set aside the retort that the os is an issue and focus instead on how to implement a ui specific enlargement, we might have a better communication.

I've repeatedly suggested that the icons created for retina displays - which are physically larger than those for normal displays - be made available as a preference choice and not as an auto detect. This would allow the larger elements to be used for those of us who require physically larger icons to match the ui font enlargement option we also choose.
If the ui has the capability to expand to accommodate the larger fonts, surely that ability could be expanded to the tool bar to allow larger icons.
In short, because a manual choice could be implemented, all that would need to happen is change to the ui, independent of the os.

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195.8K Points

Even getting all the UI elements to scale correctly and work on low resolution monitors is problematic with the current Windows APIs.

We are trying to solve the problems, but there are things preventing us from doing that in the OS itself.

Again, we are working with Microsoft on the issue.

We will update this topic when we have news to share.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

7 years ago

Chris.. A few days back you replied to my links to show how customization of the ui icons were done in another program.
You relied with
"And the links you gave are for simple icon customization - which really doesn't even start to solve the scalable UI problems."

My response is Yes. Customizing the ui with simple icon customization is really all we would like please.

Scalability - as an auto detect os thing - would be completely redundant if we could simple manually booze enlargements.

Without a manual option, retina displays simply show the "small" icons - the same icons we'd see on a normal monitor, rather than icons that are even smaller.

So though "hi Rez" icons are great to show "normally" on a hi rez display, they still cannot be made even larger.

So since you say it's simple, why not implement it?

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195.8K Points

Just scaling the icons doesn't really help. The icons are only a small part of the UI.

Font scaling solved the problems for many people, but still causes issues due to dialogs not fitting common display sizes after enlarging the fonts.

We know what needs to be done, and are working with Microsoft so that we can get it done.

Please keep an eye on this topic: we will update it when we have news to share.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

I'm talking apples. You're talking oranges.
Currently in ps prefs if I choose large fonts there are no issues

If I enlarge fonts system wide... Only applications that don't use the os for rendering are ignored. Everything else works just fine.

So again... I'm not asking adobe to play nice with the os.
Or vice versa

I'm pointing out that your competition has solved this issue by allowing the user make the change within the ui of the program itself.
And solved they solved it a far ways back.

So you're telling me then that adobe has no earthly understanding of implementing this?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

What are you talking about?

I've been telling you repeatedly that we are working on this.
If you aren't understanding what we have written, please let us know your native language and we'll get someone to translate it for you.

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1.3K Points

Now when I write comments like that they get deleted - by you. So that's ironic.

It's extremely plain that I'm talking about preferences to enlarge aspects of the UI. You keep saying its ms's fault.
I'm saying Corel does this natively, on windows, with user selected sizing.
You're saying you're working on it with Microsoft's help.
I'm saying Corel and other software developers managed to do it on their own.
You're saying that later icons are a simple customization but its only a small part of the issue.
I'm saying you already made larger fonts an option, and it's just a small issue that's now resolved, so why not make larger icons available and you have a second small issue solved?

You're still saying we should check back for updates... Well adobe blah blah CC software is now out and there's still no solution, and you never updated us here for those on macs who may want to know that CC programs now mostly support retina display.

So you're not even living up to your own statements.

But hey, why worry about an interface i cant see when I can make Qr codes in indesign and when I can't export from bridge anymore.

So really it's plain we get functions we don't need, lose functions we do and get patronized for asking for the obvious things tht should be available.

All for $60 a month. Forever.

Thanks for the awesome customer support and respect for your customers.

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1.3K Points

Oh and by the way... My native language is Canadian English, and only a couple adobe apps have that option for the dictionary, because apparently adobe cannot make all apps have the same features (like UI font sizing)

So I doubt adobe could even translate for me, adobe isn't even listening to us.

Because we Canadian have wanted that feature for years too.

:)

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195.8K Points

Please read the previous posts. What we've said is consistent.

We are listening, but are you?

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Thing is Chris - yes I hear you. I understand the issues with scalable things within an OS. You're not listening to me. Adobe's UI supersedes the OS. That's why a manual preference choice to enlarge the fonts in PS is there. It's why Corel allows larger fonts and tool images. They also supersede the OS and do it themselves in the UI preferences.

So yes, if you want a complicated, auto detect scalable interface or even just basic support for retina display in MS Windows then yes, you need MS's help.

But to have a manual solution you only need to make yourselves.
I'm not the one being thick here.

Heck I'm even conceding certain aspects of your points.

Why is it so beneath you to simply agree that a manual preference solution MIGHT be viable and simply investigate it?

Maybe look into adding that Canadian dictionary to illustrator too.

As stated by many of us, others do it and have done it.
So unless they have magic fairy code in their apps, surely your brainiac adobe software super awesome guru teams you keep bragging to us about can implement the same strategy.

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195.8K Points

Let me break this down a bit more: you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. We do know the issues involved, and have said repeatedly that we are working on it. We can't do this quickly because we have found issues that need Microsoft's assistance to solve. When we have something more to tell you, we will update this topic with details.

4 Messages

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100 Points

When I made a photoshop extension plugin like kuler with flex tools, which was fully scalable with no issue. Working on it? For 2years on this issue? Close or sell the company plz.

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195.8K Points

That was using Flash, not native OS controls.
Please read what has already been written in this topic.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Um photoshop doesn't use native os controls for icons.

Icons for ps are found on my win8 here :
C:/program files/adobe/ps cs6/resources/ icon resources.idx, with the high and low Rez dat files

A similar folder is on the Mac.

Nothing at all to do with OS.

So sorry Chris, try again.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

I did try replacing the low res icons with the useless hi rez icons (since i'm on windows) where applicable so I could have at least a few large icons, but there seems to be a check sum elsewhere that references the idx file.
Since adobe designed the idx file with extra code to identify what icon is being loaded it's all just a big frankencode mess - not to mention the mockery of file naming strategies between "matching" images or lack thereof. So with the PS app checking byte sizes it didn't work... I haven't had time to source out the specific lines to rectify that though.

I mean you guys went to some massive effort to make excessively bloated code. If hi rez isn't support in windows, why bloat my software with the files for it?
Kind makes me wonder why since it's there you don't just add the prefernce "choice".
Or are you gonna pull an Apple on us and release the obvious as a feature - like inDesign CC now having a pretty dark interface. Great feature.

but hey, what do I know right?
Well, aside from there is absolutely no reference in any of this to the OS being at fault.

At least you have the open and save dialogues on all the adobe apps at a win7 level now... that's only been missing since 2009. A three year gap on that isn't too shabby.
I guess then we'll have a scalable UI next year?

7 Messages

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202 Points

7 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Photoshop CS6 interface too small.


The user interface in Photoshop CS6 is so small that it is virtually unusable on my laptop. I have to go on memory of what the items and icons mean.

It seems to be designed to be used only by eyes that are less than 25 years old.

This is a major problem

2 Messages

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132 Points

7 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
All Adobe Products: Resize UI for large screens & high resolutions..


ALL Adobe products require the same fix! Large monitors are NOT supported with full 1080p resolutions, period.

Here's the thing, full HD on a 50" screen for example, makes all the tools very small, and all UI text except for that which windows controls.

I've seen many posts with replies from the Adobe community staff about DPI, when they clearly do not grasp the fact DPI has NOTHING to do with images or there size, which includes all tools & text within Adobe interfaces.

So if I set the windows TEXT DPI to larger (150%), everything displays correctly from web browsers to many other software apps, except for Adobe products. Again, ignore the file / edit etc menu bar, I'm talking the products UI which you CAN NOT ALTER!

There's one small option within preferences for making the UI font small, medium or large, which has insignificant impact & again doesn't effect any tools.

Especially in todays world where monitor & tv sizes have increased & devalued, any artists working on larger screens are suffering. Generally it's OK for people with say 20 - 30" screens who sit at a desktop, but anything more, where you can't sit close to the screen, it's a problem.
It's also still a problem for some at those screen sizes too, however not so much so.

Having a fixed size UI, especially going into the future, just isn't good enough, I'm sure Adobe must be aware of 4k being around the corner & of general screen sizes & resolutions, so surely a solution where the customers can alter the interface, is far better than the out of date, fixed sizes.

Almost all areas of the UI can be moved, snapped & such, however they can not be enlarged, with all adobe products, this is the same problem, not just Photoshop.

Just as the designs for all Adobe products are universal, so should the options to change the interface in both size & layout, be universal accross all products.

2 Messages

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92 Points

7 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Menus and tools are too small...not scaled to display resolution.


The Photoshop user interface does not scale the menus and tools to allow me to use the software with my laptop's high resolution display. I have a 15.6" laptop (XPS 15). Photoshop looks okay with my 1920x1080 22" monitor, but sometimes I like to do simple editing with a laptop. This isn't the only software I've had a problem with, but Microsoft software looks great, so I know it can be addressed,

57 Messages

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778 Points

7 years ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Whe will HiDPI for Adobe Photoshop be implemented? In Illustrator its already done and it works fine..


Its not possible to see the menu bar well in HiDPI Monitors. The menu structure has been changed within Illustrator but Photoshop has been forgotten?
We all have to pay for our suite, so it would be nice to use it in an adequate manner.