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4 Messages

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1.3K Points

Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:40 PM

Implemented

128

Photoshop: Support scalable user interface UI for high resolution monitors

I'm using a high resolution monitor(2560x1600). As a result, all the the toolbar fonts and menu fonts are small and hard to see. I do not want to lower the screen resolution as this would defeat the purpose of this monitor.. Will the new CS6 have the ability to increase font sizes to accommidate Hi-Res monitors?

Thanks

Ron Acevedo

Responses

34 Messages

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798 Points

8 years ago

"Retina" is not the only high resolution screen.

Some may have better eyesight, but for me Photoshop's interface is barely legible on a 30" 2560x1600. Why not use the high resolution assets developed for "Retina" to offer me larger GUI?

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Make "HiDPI" not exlusive to "Retina".

88 Messages

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1.9K Points

"Retina" is not the only high resolution display, but your 30" 2560x1600 is still only 100.6 ppi - and that is pretty normal.
But as this thread shows that far from all users have perfect vision, and displays will only keep getting higher resolution.

2 Messages

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90 Points

8 years ago

Hello,

I'm a fairly young person with pretty good vision. I have astigmatism which only effects my vision of objects very far away. I'm in a creative field and use photoshop and illustrator every day. Your software isn't just important to me, its how I feed and clothe myself.

I've got a nice big shiny iMac with a native screen size of 2560 x 1440, which makes working on my artwork so much better. However, I can't make out the UI of Illustrator and Photoshop without staining or staying closer to my monitor then I'd like to be. The icons are so teeny tiny! The tools themselves end up about a quarter inch on one side, and most buttons smaller then that.

I do get around well enough simply by memory and what I can make out. Anchor points, however, are a nightmare. I've used preferences to make them as large as possible and even then, they can be difficult to select.

I appreciate a neat organized screen as much as the next person, but if someone with average vision like me can't make things out easily, it must be awful for those worse off. I'm sure it will take a lot of work, but please consider making more UI size options. Until then I'll do my best to take care of my eyes!

Thank you,
Paloma

7 Messages

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192 Points

Thanks Paloma. Seems like Adobe has written off the over 50 crowd, perhaps actuarial tables imply that we're low marketing potential as repeat customers.

However, when the young and talented are dissatisfied......well, who Do they care about?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

A quarter inch icon should be visible assuming you have proper corrective lenses. The display you are referring to is still about 100 dpi -- aka "normal" resolution. And we already released some scalable UI for Macintosh with the 13.0.2/13.1 release.

The remaining problems are for people with really bad vision, and scalable UI on Windows -- that's why this topic is still marked "under consideration" instead of "implemented".

You should also note that the Photoshop engineers are mostly in their 40s with corrective lenses, reading glasses, bifocals, etc. And we use Photoshop daily on normal and high resolution displays.

37 Messages

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606 Points

Yet another non-answer, answer. The icons are too small when they are displayed on high resolution monitors, which for professinals is the norm. Do you realy think that we are going to spend a lot of money on software and then display the UI on a cheap, low/medium resolution monitor?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

What does that have to do with Paloma's post or my response?
It really sounds like you are confusing large displays (like Paloma's iMac) with high resolution displays (like the retina displays).
And why do you seem to think that we aren't addressing this when we've already said (and SHOWN) that we are?

37 Messages

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606 Points

What release? CS6.? or CS7.? Or when?

2 Messages

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90 Points

Hello Chris Cox,

I see now that I've failed to properly update!! I'm doing so right now. My apologies for my original comment, I obviously didn't read and research my issue throughly enough. Thanks very much for the reminder in your post.

As far as the quarter inch icons are concerned, I'm probably much too far from my monitor at times. With eyes ~20 inches from the screen I can still make them out, indeed. I'm excited to have the option to adjust the UI for those times when I'm further from my monitor due to not currently having proper office furniture.

Please know that I had no intent to offend or frustrate, especially with my opening remark. I should have chosen my words more carefully and read about the issue more throughly before contributing to the conversation. I'm sorry.

Thanks so much.
-Paloma

34 Messages

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798 Points

8 years ago

A lot of the responses, including from Adobe people, have centered around the fact that a 30" 2560x1600 is, at 100 DPI, not a high-density screen like the Retina.

This is true, and if I had a 100 DPI 15-17" laptop I would likely not be having problems.

You're overlooking that one must sit quite a bit farther away from a 30" screen to see everything without turning one's head. Additionally, for me at least, sitting too close causes headaches. I like to be at least the monitor's diagonal away from it (30" from a 30" screen, for example).

37 Messages

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606 Points

8 years ago

The word for the concept at issue here is ergonomics. Customers should be able to scale UI size to suit their comfort level, whether due to a physical impairment or not. When we buy professional software to use on professional hardware, we expect both to be ergonomic. Why? Because we spend up to eight or more hours a day using them.

5 Messages

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160 Points

8 years ago

Having just spent a huge amount of money on Adobe Suite CS6 and also upgraded to a Retina Mac I find it hard to believe Adobe can be so small minded as to ignore what is a blatant case of serious human rights infringement.

Millions of graphics and web professionals are being forced to compromise their visual health by squinting at tiny UI text far too small for the extended hours that we have to endure.

Adobe has a MONOPOLY on industry standard software and as such should be forced to offer a usable version which is not detrimental to the health of millions of professionals.

Where is the printers union when you need it?

Has anyone seen a single response from Adobe?

THIS SITUATION NEEDS AN OFFICIAL COMPLAINT ON THE BASIS OF HUMAN RIGHTS INFRINGEMENT.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

8 years ago

^ lol

well that escalated quickly

I run three monitors, and soon, I'll be swapping out the middle for a 30". I'm not looking forward to needing binoculars.

if we didn't need to enlarge things, one wonders why they even bother wasting UI space with zoom. Or you know, simply use the existing windows UI sizing options, as why reinvent the wheel?

3 Messages

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92 Points

8 years ago

Unlike the twenty something year old engineers at Adobe, my eyes are not as good as they were - along with most everything in or on my body. I simply cant read those itsy fonts or icons without getting a headache please tell me how to jack the icon an font size up.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
How the heck can I increase the size of the teenyweeny font and icons?.

88 Messages

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1.9K Points

In CS6 go to Preferences > Interface, and change the "UI Font Size" at the bottom to "Large". That's all you can do until a newer version comes out.

Optionally try to use a monitor with lower ppi (width in pixels / width in inches = ppi), or sit closer to it.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

yes, this is partially possible in Photoshop, and you can also change the font size in windows to affect menu items - but the icons, and other UI buttons do not enlarge.
In Illustrator for instance none of this is possible - and worse, when you zoom - in the hopes of having larger anchor handles, they scale to remain at their set tiny size...
"try to use a smaller monitor or sit closer" is not the correct solution.

88 Messages

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1.9K Points

"try to use a smaller monitor or sit closer".
I did not mean smaller monitor, just lower ppi. That could be the same pixel count you already have (like 1920x1080), but on a larger monitor. That IS a one working solution (or at least work-around) to the problem "it's too small for me to see". I was providing options for Herman that can be used right now, while waiting for a future version of the CS.

It's not the best solution in many cases (especially since we want higher ppi monitors), but it's the only one available right now besides the "UI Font Size" option in CS6.

Ps: Regarding anchor size in Illustrator CS6; you can make them slightly larger/easier to see under Preferences > Selection & anchor display (choose the rightmost option).

If your eyesight is bad, see an optician to make sure you use optimal glasses/lenses. This can make a big difference as well.
There are other things to consider as well to avoid headaches and strain when working on a computer monitor (like screen brightness and white balance).

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

I knew what you meant about the monitor. I meant smaller.
Lowering my resolution to 1024x768 is not a solution, it's smaller (less screen space) and very grainy because it's not a native resolution you see.
Using a 30" monitor with a native 1920x1080 resolution at 3ft away also would be grainy and uncomfortable.
Using a smaller native monitor like a 15 or 17" at 1024x768 would be a solution, but I'd have less "real estate" to work in again, and it would make my images too small to see the finer details i need to change "as a whole" without a lot of zoom-in-and-out-ed-ness

So, it would be easier for everyone involved to have an option to enlarge the UI elements.

I'm pretty sure we all know how to use our monitors and eyes.
I also don't know why "see a doctor" is the popular retort to people wanting larger UI elements.

Actually, for all the naysayers, why is it never the developer's issue? Are all UI's perfect out of the box? No.
That's why we're saying - Hey, this could be tweaked a bit please.

Thanks for the Illustrator tip.
Whats interesting is that I knew it was there - but never noticed what the difference was in the choices - until I really looked just now at your suggestion.
Then while laughing, I used the snipping tool and fired up photoshop.

Using my 20/20 vision (pretty good considering I'm 41) and zoom on photoshop and have to say that the 4 pixel handle on "small" compared to the 7 pixel handle on "large" is a wonderful improvement - at 600%.
You can barely notice a difference - and these remain at that size regardless of how large you magnify your paths. Instead of slightly enlarging as you go.

I'm not even going to bother going into the fishing you have to do to get the type on a path handles to appear.

First thing in the morning it's fine once the coffee kicks in, but by lunch, man my eyes hurt. Because the icons and stuff are too small.

Our design projects are only getting larger, so we need large monitors, so we should also be able to have a large UI option.

88 Messages

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1.9K Points

Let's just stick to "ppi" when comparing monitors, shall we? Makes it easier. :)
And yes, always use the native resolution or it will be "blurry" due to the upsampled image not matching the pixel grid.

We all know it would be a good thing to have an option to scale the UI to larger sizes. It's an necessity when we get higher ppi monitors, or bad eyesight. Done. Settled. Adobe knows as well, but it's unrealistic to expect it in a CS6 update.

Now, that being said, if you have 20/20 vision with no defects, then a 100 ppi monitor will allow you to see all the buttons and text perfectly well in the current UI (It's the same size as the text on this webpage and most other software I use). I have 20/20 vision, and can work comfortably in Photoshop all day on 100 ppi monitors - that's why I'm pointing out that there are other variables at play.

It sounds like your problem is your eyes getting tired over time, and at the end of the day it gets uncomfortable. From experience there are several things that can contribute to this, and I recommend you try them out since it's important when you work in front of a monitor all day:

1. Most imporantly; calibrate your monitor! It's very important that you pick a brightness and color temperature that matches your surroundings. Monitors are often way too bright, and too cool. Try a warmer temperature (warmer than you think), and lower lum (lower than you think!). The change will look "bad" immediately when you change it (as your eyes are adapted to the old setting), but after a short while your eyes/brain will adapt. Try working for an hour at least.
2. Look away and off into the distance now and then. This relaxes your eye muscles (the closer something is, the harder they work to converge your eyes).
3. Remember to blink to avoid your eyes becoming dry (you blink less when looking at a monitor). Regular short breaks (coffee, smokes, toilet, whatever) can help with point 2-3.
4. Get your eyes checked - just in case - if it happens a lot. They sometimes do this for free where they sell glasses. Takes about one minute. Your eyes being slightly "off" might get tiring over time (and we all get older...).

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Jonas... c'mon now, i'm not trying to pick a fight,
but lines per inch are not the issue here really.
Our UI is set for 72/96 dpi. If you want lines per inch stick with typesetting, paper and postscript printers - there is no monitor on the planet dealing with lpi

So we're dealing with pixels here.
A 7 pixel image (such as the illustrator handles) is variable in RENDERING size base on pixel density of the MONITOR. If I have a 300 dpi retina display that means my "7 pixel" non scalable image is really friggin small.

What I'm - and others are trying to say is that if an icon is meant to be seen at 1/4 inch large of actual ruler held to screen (or close to it) - it should be a 1/4 inch on any monitor --- which would indicated the UI should talk to the OS/drivers to determine the resolution of the monitor and display - and via an algorithm render an approximated 1/4 inch image.

Current, it simply is based on dpi as a raw thing - so it shrinks or enlarges based solely on the monitor's resolution. And we know how lightroom and photoshop and so on complain about having a 1024 or approximate monitor as in these sizes our modules take up like half the screen real estate lol

That said, 1/4 is too small for extended view, all of us regardless of age and eyesight are going to experience strain looking at such small icons all the time day in day out - it's like carpel tunnel for the eye balls.

So aside from putting the ball in our courts, Adobe should simply meet us half way - as we already upgrade our gear, buy ram, increase drive space, blah blah blah - and make the UI scalable.

Please...

7 Messages

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192 Points

Jonas, advice kindly meant and already acted on- including a yoga mat nearby.
My eye doctor said "get a different program", but the availability of on line tutorials and the range of inter-related programs like AE and Illustrator kind of precludes that. We're dealing with the schoolyard bully- it's his ball (even if we love the game) and he knows it.

34 Messages

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798 Points

8 years ago

I'm glad this topic is still getting comments. We need to keep reminding Adobe that this should be one of their highest priorities.

Can anyone explain to me why this is even a big deal? It seems to me the assets necessary for a larger interface have ALREADY BEEN DEVELOPED for Retina and all Adobe has to do is give the rest of us access to them.

9 Messages

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414 Points

8 years ago

I've been using CS6 for so long now, that I have developed a natural "Photoshop squint".

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

^ lol
:)

7 Messages

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254 Points

8 years ago

There are no comfortable alternatives except to code-in the freekin UI settings to be larger in icons and text menus ,.. honestly, you can set a layers box to be large enough on a wider monitor but not the stinking tool bar ... c'mon people!!!!! this is an easy fix that is necessary not just FOR eyesight issues but a comfortable workflow. Too tiny an icon makes it take longer actually be fast and select it. not everyone uses hot keys for EVERYTHING... fix the darn options so users can mk those things that we want bigger so it's easier to work. monitors are getting wider horizontally more than vertically.. so larger icons in the toolbar will not take up space alot as it would on a smaller monitor of old.... that being said,..CHANGE THE DARN OPTIONS ALREADY !!!!!!!!! I mean really!!!!! it's large enough in a layers palette ,.. and you can't do that for other components in the interface ......??? Adobe,.. wake up!!!!

37 Messages

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606 Points

8 years ago

Promoted Responses = Redaction
The list of negative comments here use to be much longer.

Adobe Administrator

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15.1K Messages

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288K Points

Nothings been redacted. There are just two pages, and the second page only has a few comments on it.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

my fault.. i'm a writer lol

well not actually, I'm just verbose... o_0

37 Messages

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606 Points

JT (CCA),
If the removal of most of the comments accumulated here over the last 12-months (mine included) is not redaction, then what would you call it? Page optimization? Or perhaps, damage control? (In any event, that effort would be better spent introducing visual ergonomics into the software product.) The Adobe Dogs: ‘blame it on user eyesight’, and ‘blame it on the equipment they use’, are not hunting well here. In these cases, consumer advocacy (CA) needs to be taken to the Board Room and from there to a development team willing to successfully address Continuing Product Ergonomic Issues.

Adobe Administrator

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15.1K Messages

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288K Points

3 comments were removed by another admin. 1 was spam, and 2, according to the notes, didn't conform to the community guidelines.

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

We appreciate everyone's vote for this request. The topic is marked appropriately and the team has been actively working on future support for higher resolution displays.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

37 Messages

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606 Points

I made at least 5 posts here, and probably more, most of which were responding to those of others. All are gone now. I suppose two of them were "redacted" as I offered software alternatives in them. As for the many others, a system DC gremlin must have eaten them I suppose.

Adobe Administrator

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15.1K Messages

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288K Points

Hi William, I assure you, they're not gone, though they may have been hidden/collapsed when the comments sections for replies become longer than 3. (see the 'view 3 more comments' link at the bottom of your reply above.

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

35 Messages

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514 Points

Not true. My comments and many others have been removed. I get e-mail notifications from this forum so I know when new comments appear and can quickly discern when these same comments have been removed.

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

8 years ago

Silly observation maybe... But if focus is on Retina displays, that's lovely, but it may not actually address the issue :

Option one is to detect and increase automagically based on screen rez - that's hard, and may not be user configurable.

Option two would be to have a selectable "level" with built in icons and the current scalable font option. So "simply" add a small medium and large level for icons?

Most people in here are not worried about "resolution" per say - they are worried about actual size of the UI icons and text... Photoshop allows font enlargement so that should rollover to AI, indesign, etc.

But the tool icons themselves seem to be the prevalent "request".

I may be misinterpreting what you're saying, but potentially having more pixel density in the icons is pretty, but not exactly an improvement right?
We don't "need" a highrez icon as much as we need a larger icon.

So when you say it's in the works, can you elaborate?
Can we chime in during the process rather than after?
When you say future support, what kind of timeline is that?
This thread is a year old, and a year ago staff said they were "looking into it".

Adobe Administrator

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15.1K Messages

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288K Points

It's a multi-facited problem. Retina support is one aspect, the ability to display the UI at at enlarged factors is another (e.g make the text and icons 2x larger)

Retina support was added in within the past year (but note we didn't mark the thread implemented - as we still need to address some aspects of customers requests.)

We can't talk about specifics on future releases at this time. There are customers actively testing and giving us feedback on future releases in our beta program.

The faq I posted above gives a lot of good information on how we leverage customers input on this site. I've reposted the link here:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

111 Messages

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1.3K Points

Hi Jeff, thanks elaborating
- for the FAQ, I kinda already knew the purposes - but I still have to poke a little *smiles*

However, I would totally and wholehearted chime in to be a beta tester!
Where do I sign up?

2 Messages

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134 Points

8 years ago

For Mac there is a retina supporting version of Photoshop now. Why is there no way to use the higher resolution icons and all on regular displays too. Not to heighten the resolution of each seen icon but to enlarge it? On my PC with a 2560x1450 27" display, all the menu bars and icons are pretty small and I really hoped the retina changes would me integrated in a way so you can increase the size of all the menu bars/icons, too.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Photoshop UI Scaling.

3 Messages

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104 Points

8 years ago

I have this fear that a simple thing like making fonts large enough to actually read is going to cost us a whole bunch of money.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The UI font size is already changeable, and has been for a few versions.

3 Messages

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104 Points

ok, how?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Preferences : Interface: UI Font Size

Change it, then relaunch the app.

3 Messages

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104 Points

I guess I wasn't clear. I am talking about Bridge. There is no "interface" option in preferences

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

You're right - you didn't mention Bridge at all, and the topic says Photoshop.

9 Messages

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206 Points

8 years ago

I kind of have this problem already. My laptop has a 13 inch 1920x1080 screen (very nice wide-gamut IPS-like :P), which is incredibly high PPI for Windows PC standards. Even when the Windows DPI setting is adjusted (also known as "large fonts", which is not what it is) the GUI (and text) in Adobe products remain tiny.

So not only is this a neccesary thing on emerging high PPI screens, it's also poorly conforming to Windows settings. I haven't seen Adobe products on Retina Macbooks, but logic predicts nothing but pain (literally).

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the rest of the topic. Photoshop already supports Retina displays on MacOS.