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57 Messages

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1.5K Points

Sun, Jun 28, 2020 6:30 PM

Camera Raw 12.3: Crop tool is unusable

I got the latest update to ACR and find the crop tool to be unusable.  The way it works is not at all intuitive - you fixed something that was not broken.   Just as there are 2 methods in Photoshop to crop an image I would like to see that added to ACR.  I have to save my work as a smart object - go to Photoshop to crop - then go back to raw to finish my image adjusting.  That extra step is very time consuming when you have hundreds of images to process.

Why the crop tool was ever changed is a mystery.  You should not fix what is not broken.

I have since reverted to a prior version of ACR and was able to restore the good crop tool - but at the peril of not seeing raw files as thumbnails now.  Thankfully I shoot in Raw + JPG so at least I can see what I am going to edit. 

This is a mess and I am seeing a LOT of people complaining about this.  I sincerely hope the folks at Adobe will hear this and make a change.  I am NOT a Lightroom user - I don't like that interface and forcing that on [us] was a mistake. 

Please fix this - or at least make the revert option work seamlessly.  

Thank You.

Responses

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

7 months ago

A lot of people complain indeed. 
A lot of people are very happy with the new changes. 
Do you need to know how to revert to the last version? That's absolutely possible. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

I have yet to see anybody in favor of this that must be a whole nother for him because nobody in this one has had anything good to say

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

You are not looking. That's my you're not seeing.
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Søren Kierkegaard

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

The new crop tool in ACR  is terrible. - No fooling.

33 Messages

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300 Points

Rubbish! A MINORITY are happy with it!! Scroll these forums and read all of the complaints instead of defending Adobe like a Bouncer....

33 Messages

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300 Points

Andrew loves shooting down people......his arrogance will return back to him when he get knocked of his perch.,,,,

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

All doubt removed!
"It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

62 Messages

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2.1K Points

FFS Andrew, please stop being a knob and stop quoting people to make yourself look like a man.....you will become respected when you take off that fig leaf pal.

Message to self:
Proverbs 26 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Champion

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6.1K Messages

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106.1K Points

An, forums never give a clear indication of how many people like or dislike a feature, because almost the only people who bother to post are the unhappy ones. That is especially true on a forum like this, which is designed to collect peoples requests for changes.

ACR will continue to be improved based on requests here and elsewhere, but it will undoubtedly take some getting used to too. Those who have been testing it for longer have found that the new UI has grown on them, and most who didn't like it to start with now prefer it to the older interface. Give it time.

Andrew, you're really not helping. If you can't say something nice, please don't say anything at all.

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

Champion

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6.1K Messages

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106.1K Points

An, forums never give a clear indication of how many people like or dislike a feature, because almost the only people who bother to post are the unhappy ones. That is especially true on a forum like this, which is designed to collect peoples requests for changes.

ACR will continue to be improved based on requests here and elsewhere, but it will undoubtedly take some getting used to too. Those who have been testing it for longer have found that the new UI has grown on them, and most who didn't like it to start with now prefer it to the older interface. Give it time.

Andrew, you're really not helping. If you can't say something nice, please don't say anything at all.

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

Victoria I can see why you might favor the new layout since you work in Lightroom. I submit that photoshop gurus would prefer the layout that has been in play for longer than Lightroom. I wonder how many of those beta testers were Photoshop users only?

Champion

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6.1K Messages

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106.1K Points

I'm not sure how much I can say, but those I speak of are primarily camera raw users, not Lightroom users. Different teams. 

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

"What annoys us about others may say more about ourselves than about them."-C.J. Jung

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Champion

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6.1K Messages

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106.1K Points

Andrew, please? The quotes are only antagonizing people who are already upset. You have so much experience to offer, you have better things to do than wind people up.

Victoria Bampton a.k.a. The Lightroom Queen

www.lightroomqueen.com

Author of Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ and Adobe Lightroom - Edit Like a Pro books.

904 Messages

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11.4K Points

He has become a Troll that had an undergrad philosophy course...

904 Messages

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11.4K Points

I attempted to remove this posting but the system keeps putting it back!

904 Messages

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11.4K Points

7 months ago

If you use Bridge you can get to Camera Raw by Open With

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

7 months ago

That still won't  show the thumbnail however I've tried everything including flushing cache & trying to get it to show high-quality thumbnails and it's still just gives me an icon. I think you may also have to revert back to the old bridge in order to make it all work together. Any instructions for learning how to do that would be most welcome

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

7 months ago

I just installed the latest version of ACR and am back to seeing the thumbnails but the crop tool is useless.  I can ONLY see the crop result as I move the image around in the thumbnail - not on the screen.  I am just going to open as a smart object and crop in PS.  Only downfall is you no longer get to use the Effects to do edge darkening like I used to be able to do in ACR.  This adds another few steps.  I sincerely hope Adobe engineers fix this - and quick!

33 Messages

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300 Points

7 months ago

Nope, it is a disgrace and whoever commissioned it should have their employment terminated.

1 Message

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120 Points

7 months ago

How may I get back to the original interface of the Camera Raw dialogue? The new-look is pathetic!

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

7 months ago

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

I tried installing the prior version but you then can no longer see thumbnails of raw and DNG files in Bridge.   It does restore the crop tool nicely but at the expense of not seeing raw files.

This is such a mess. I so hope a fix comes soon.

904 Messages

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11.4K Points

Have you tried doing a search using the search box at top of this page? Try various ways to phrase the situation and you are very likely to get answers....

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

Hi Mike, hopefully by now you will have been able to join the LegacyACR club - using Bridge 10.0.4  which you can get through the Adobe Creative Cloud app.  

This is my signature.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

I have been providing feedback to my Adobe Contact and I understand the feedback is being forwarded to the key individuals who  should be able to solve this.  I am being optimistic before rolling back but  if this isn't solved by my next major editing project I will become a member of your 'club' and roll back as well just to get the job done.  It is most unfortunate that a solution is to roll back a software revision.  That people are doing this in  such quantity should send a message to the developers that a mistake was made.

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

What exactly is this quantity? And the percentage of the user base to compare?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

Andrew -  You seem to be trying to defend the change but are doing so poorly.  If you like the new version so much then why were you not equally or more outspoken about the former version that has been in place for years?   You only need to look at the number of  comments by various people - and even the rollback 'club' that was created - as well as all of the threads here and in other  discussion pages in this community to see there is a quantity of people all complaining about this recent update.  

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

Mike, I'm not defending anything. I'm asking you back up, with specific facts, what you wrote. I only need to look at what number, those here that make up (what) fraction of the total base of users? What's the percentage I ask you. 

Perhaps you mean: 

That people are doing this in such quantity IN THIS FORUM should send a message to the developers that a mistake was made.

I'll add again, with as much ambiguity in terms of numbers what I said earlier:

A lot of people complain indeed. 
A lot of people are very happy with the new changes. 

Such quantity should send a message to the developers that a mistake was made.

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

What you are not grasping is that those that are very happy would remain happy if those that were not happy were given the option of turning on the legacy-style crop, legacy tab buttons, retro-zoom behaviour options.  Those that are not happy are really very unhappy indeed, but we are not advocating making those that are very happy any less happy.  Everyone would be happier.  Well, except those who persist in insisting that software evolution is a one way street.

(edited)

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1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

Who is insisting that software evolution is a one way street?

The team designing the software is evolving on their street.

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

You mostly- when you say things like  “your options - revert, learn the new way, move to alternative software or keep complaining”  

I don’t see “persuade the software company to add legacy workflow options” 

This is my signature.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

You mostly- when you say things like  “your options - revert, learn the new way, move to alternative software or keep complaining”

More assumptions. The statement about a one way street, never made. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

4 Messages

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110 Points

Thank goodness that my old laptop with Bridge 2017 & Camera Raw installed was recently returned. I had 500 plus NEF files to process after Saturday's cricket game. Would still be working on them if attempting to use the updated Camera Raw cropping tool. Agree that it is like trying to draw with a pencil, by moving the paper instead of the pencil. Cheers from Aus.

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

6 months ago

What is extraordinary? Imagine if the Ps interface changed that fundamentally on an incremental version change without warning? For all of us who spend hundreds of times more hours in ACR than Ps this is a Big Deal even if it is a fun pre retirement project for you.

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1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

What is extraordinary? 

Failure again to read:

That people are doing this in  such quantity should send a message to the developers that a mistake was made.

Maybe you Ash can make up a quantity?
Or better, provide a factual numeric matrix. And the percentage of the user base to compare?

 For all of us who spend hundreds of times more hours in ACR 
How many would that be Ash? Dozens, hundreds, thousands? And the percentage of the user base to compare?

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

57 Messages

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1.5K Points

Andrew - once again your comments do not contribute to the root of this thread.  Please stop unless you have solutions to offer.

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

Let’s see what happens shall we. Your day to day work is not being compromised by these issues. How many professional people are you personally willing to p*ss off? Oh, we already know that...Please try to not be so condescending, it is really infuriating, especially as you are basically not helping. Oh yes you have shared Adobe’s link to revert from 12.3, many thanks.

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1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

Andrew - once again your comments do not contribute to the root of this thread.

IOW, just take what you're stating as factual rather than an individual opinion based on assumptions. To contribute to this thread, post just agreements, then the comments are of value (to you) and a 'solution'. I understand your POV now.

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

Or just try and be supportive and constructive with real peoples genuine issues.  Just an idea.

This is my signature.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

Just another idea.
It's simple:
Move forward/adapt.
Revert.
Use a different product.

Optional but useless:
Keep complaining over and over again (definition of insanity....).

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

As you know I and others have chosen for the time being to revert.  It has been your (and others) worthwhile contribution to the problems we have had with 12.3.

We choose to keep complaining because we are now using outdated and potentially unsecured software that would gradually become incompatible. 

Doing the same thing over and over again does not always get the same result. (Cast a fly, pick a card, bet on blue, vote to Remain.) 

  We hope for change, because it makes a real difference to our working lives. 

For me 30 seconds extra cropping/scrolling/clicking per photo could add 84 hours of extra work per year for me, I'm willing to spend a few hours trying to push the boulder off course by a few inches to one side for that.

I do not believe that to complain is useless, if I always get my food served cold I would keep complaining too, louder and louder till someone that matters heard me.

This is my signature.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.

1.9K Messages

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22.8K Points

As you know I and others have chosen for the time being to revert.  It has been your (and others) worthwhile contribution to the problems we have had with 12.3.
There you go. Glad that was helpful for some
We choose to keep complaining because we are now using outdated and potentially unsecured software that would gradually become incompatible. 
Complaining will not change that. If you don't want outdated software, upgrade. 
I know you want it both ways, you're not going to get what you want. 
We hope for change, because it makes a real difference to our working lives.  
There was change, you didn't like it. Be careful what you wish for. 
Two things some Adobe customers hate: change and the way things are. 

For me 30 seconds extra cropping/scrolling/clicking per photo could add 84 hours of extra work per year for me, I'm willing to spend a few hours trying to push the boulder off course by a few inches to one side for that.
Get better at the tool set, charge (more by the hour), switch to another product. All the options were presented. 

I do not believe that to complain is useless, if I always get my food served cold I would keep complaining too, louder and louder till someone that matters heard me.
Yes, I'm certain you believe whenever you complain, no matter the product or service, you'll get what you want. You've complained. Doing so 10 or 100 more times doesn't add any additional weight to how Adobe has and will move forward. 

You can hold your breath and stamp you feet too; how well did that work for you as a child? Or did you always get everything you wanted then? 

We don't always get what we want. HOW you deal with moving forward is the question, you've got three options. You picked one. Live with it. Or pick something else. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers"

3 Messages

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236 Points

5 months ago

I also find the current crop tool close to unusable and would like to see a setup option to chose between the old and new crop tools.  In particular:
- I want to be able to crop by drawing a crop frame over an image, and
- sometimes to do that without needing to first specify a fixed aspect ratio (I think the old method may have referred to that as "normal") 
Do Adobe programmers look at these posts? Any word on getting the option to choose the old crop method?

20 Messages

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324 Points

I agree. The change to the cropping tool is like putting your pen on a piece of paper, and then moving the paper to write your message while the pen stays stationary. 

In terms of getting Adobe developers to see these comments, I've been told by Rikk (an Adobe Administrator) "Even more effective would be to hit the voting arrows on the left side of the original post. That count ties directly into our bug/feature tracking." I'm not seeing those voting arrows in this post, but here's another post with the same cropping suggestion that you can vote on: https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/camera-raw-and-dng/cropping-behavior-in-adobe-camera-raw/5f95f2084833934b896f122c?commentId=5f9982456880ca356d037a2b&replyId=5f99832a6880ca356d037a37

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

Also of course moving the image is far more jarring to the eyes and presumably harder work for the GPU/CPU too - I find the crop tool sluggish when it was smooth before.    Why is it that this software/plugin can be slow with operation on things like cropping/cloning for a single image whereas Ps has no such issue, even though PS might have 50 layers and a huge composition going?  Surely a bit of love could be given to make ACR run better rather than adding wizzy new interfaces.

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4 Messages

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98 Points

@Keith_Nisly That is the best explanation of the new crop feature I've heard.  Cropping has been done the old way forever.  I don't see why this change is intuitive for anyone.  I am a sports photographer, and I edit hundreds of images at a time, and this just slows the process down to where it's unusable.  I also don't see why it would be that challenging to add the old code into a new release, and then give the option on which crop interface to use, similar to the different grid options.

3 Messages

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236 Points

Some seem to like the new cropping method, some, like myself, like the old method and find the new one unusable.  What I find pointless is attacking users in the other camp.  What on earth can be so difficult for Adobe's programmers to allow users to choose the crop method?  Not as though they need to invent the wheel, just re-bolt the old one. 

20 Messages

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324 Points

@habs3335, thanks. Yeah, it's just awkward - the opposite of what Adobe products are supposed to be. And legacy options are available in other Adobe products like Photoshop, and InDesign which I use frequently. I have not updated Photoshop and InDesign to the latest versions, partly because I'm afraid I'll lose those options for legacy (or classic) features. I can still crop in Photoshop the classic way, so I'm wanting Adobe to make this an option for ACR also. Maybe I should ask someone from Adobe to respond to this request by writing their answer on a piece of paper by holding the pen still and moving the paper. 

The other interesting thing is that when you make a selection in Photoshop, it doesn't work like the new cropping behavior. Why would it be different? I don't want Adobe to change how the selection tool works - I'm just wondering why these two are now inconsistent? I don't hear anyone asking Adobe to change how selections work because they like the new cropping behavior.

(edited)

425 Messages

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8.5K Points

Excellent points Keith. 

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