Lightroom 5 - Output Sharpening and Noise Reduction not working.

Just installed Lightroom 5 final. Output Sharpening and Noise Reduction does not work. Whole story here:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1229132
15 people have
this problem
+1
Reply
next » « previous
  • I’m frustrated
    Hey Rob.

    I would call it less a "Bug" and more a "design flaw" at this stage.

    The side by side above shows that, using a work around of bumping the NR and sharpening before export, resulted in an export similar to that on screen.

    The key is the language here: "Develop Module". I would expect at WYSIWYG interface here. To say that what is seen in "Develop Module" is not, in fact, the status of development due to resizing is nonsense. If an over calculation is being applied to the "preview", then simply apply the same calculation as the export. If the "Fit" size view (or any resized view) is n pixels in size, then an export should mirror it. Otherwise; local adjustments are meaningless.

    I suspect the bug of failure to apply the NR and Sharpening is fixed (as the above images show). However, the design flaw is glaring. I'm guessing that the "Industry Standard" status of the product suite now leaves us, as consumers, in the usual state: "If you don't like it, don't use it".

    I would prefer to see development effort going into "WYSIWYG Editing and Viewing" rather than "new features".

    Sincerely though; through a combination of your explanations and Hans guidance, I was at least able to understand WHY I was getting poor export results. The workaround get's you close.

    It simply means however, that Lightroom is absolutely NOT the tool for fine art photography. Since, the "finer" elements are at best challenging to reproduce on export.

    Shame.

    All the best gentlemen, and thank you for your help!
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • You're welcome Shane, but I'm having a hard time understanding the problem you are having.

    I mean, if you apply standard output sharpening then exported files look almost identical to develop module, right?

    Is the problem that it's not exactly identical, or that standard output sharpening is not the default, or...?
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • To be honest Rob. The point is closed or at best moot. Sharpening at standard on export is indeed similar to what's being seen. Similar is not same. Due to the naming of the "develop" module, one would expect to see that "developed" image prior to export - not one that is "similar".

    Additionally, that covers only "sharpen". The fact that NR is off by an average of 15-20 points is certainly nonsense.

    The combined effect of NR being "way off" and sharpening being "similar" results in a game of "multiple exports with tweaking of the NR slider along with changes to the export sharpening value" that could be avoided with a preview algorithm aligned to export settings.

    For now, I'm resigned to "doing the export tweak dance" on the assumption that it's a behaviour of the application that unlikely to be refined in the interest of user experience and a streamlined workflow.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Fair enough Shane. I dunno why there are differences in sharpening in develop module versus export/standard. I mean, I could guess, but it'd just be guessing.

    Regarding noise reduction - I've never noticed a difference before, but I'll keep a look out - is problem color, luminance, or both? - I assume we are talking about develop module at fit view, right? I've previously only evaluated at 1:1.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • I’m indifferent
    We are indeed talking about a fit view. Or, something resembling export size (so, generally a screen view image.

    Concerning NR. It's the "volume" of NR applied. Typically, the "volume" effect (main slider value) of NR is around 10-20 points less (depending on image size) at export that seen in the "preview" in Develop Module.

    In other words;

    Problem:
    If one exports an image of a size equal to that of the image as viewed in "Fit" or any other mode (excluding 1:1), then one can expect that the Sharpness on export is similar but not same, at the that NR volume applied is 10-20 points less than shown in the preview.

    Workflow Solution:
    Get a fell for the correct level of sharpness to apply and expect similar but never the same as previewed, and lift the NR volume by 10-15 points before export. Based on a quick comparison of export and preview, make a final NR tweak (intuitive but usually good enough) and then export again. Overall result will be very similar - but not the same - as previewed.

    Conclusion:
    My point regarding fine art elements, suggested that "if I can't see the results as I apply adjustments, and the 'fine tuning' is not the same on export, then the 'fine art' exported is different to the 'fine art' produced during adjustment. Light room is great for very, very good. But, not great for images where the 'fine subtleties' are an important element of the final export.

    I realise, of course, that viewing the same image on 500 screens, is tantamount to reviewing 500 different images. So, again, the point becomes moot. Except when on considers an avoidable "tweak dance" on export. ;-)
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • So, luminance, not color NR - right? color noise reduction is about the same??

    I'm trying to see the difference in lum.NR, but so far they look the same to me - I'll run some more tests though..

    Perhaps another reason I never noticed it is I rarely apply much more than 10-15 points total - I guess you gotta be crankin' it up pretty high to identify a 10-15/20 point swing.

    Regardless, I get your point - reduced size exports for screen not looking same as fit-view in Lr is a problem. You are exporting at same dimensions as displayed in Lightroom, then viewing those at 1:1 for comparison, I hope.

    In case you've not yet considered: when you are exporting a 4000 pixel photo at 800 pixels, you are condensing 25 pixels into 1 - the effect of lum. NR at such reductions is ~0 (same goes for develop module sharpening). What are the sizes of your originals vs. export size?

    Cheers,
    Rob
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • All of these points are indeed considered, hence the desired result being achieved some time back. On cranking the NR, can be a desired effect (as for the previous image) - but is certainly not typically the case.

    As for orginal size; I shoot and work in RAW (actually .DNG).

    Thanks again.
    Shane.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • This is a size aspect ratio problem with the user of the software etc.----if your using the "5inches by 11 inches" print format, then you need to size your image in the image sizing format in photoshop first, then bring the image in light room --if your image is bigger than the 5 by 11 format--then the reduce noise features will be changed by the software and your reduce noise is changed etc.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • This is a size aspect ratio problem with the user of the software etc.----if your using the "5inches by 11 inches" print format, then you need to size your image in the image sizing format in photoshop first, then bring the image in light room --if your image is bigger than the 5 by 11 format--then the reduce noise features will be changed by the software and your reduce noise is changed etc.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • I’m frustrated
    Im glad I came accross this topic as its been plaguing me for some time and I assumed it was something im doing. Its one of the main reasons ive moved to another editing program as the time saved by my workflow in lightroom is more than lost due to the tweaks required after exporting. I primarily shoot weddings and a lot of images are at high ISO and I need accuracy in what im seeing. The program I use now gives me an export that identically matches what I see during the edit which has removed all the guesswork I was experiencing with lightroom.

    As for resizing in another program prior to lightroom editing, that just negates the efficiency of lightroom altogether.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • I realize that I've replied to 2 other posts on this forum, but I am hoping someone will be able to help me. (I use LR4)

    Has Adobe corrected this problem or given us instructions as to how we can correct it?

    The photos that are exported do not have ANY of the sharpening applied to them (even when I've cranked it WAAAY up, more than average) that is shown in the Develop mode. The Library is not showing the sharpening that had been applied in the Develop mode either.

    I am doing nothing different than I was 2-4 weeks ago. A few weeks ago, everything I saw in Library and exported were exactly as I saw them in the Develop mode. Now, nothing that i do in regards to sharpening or N.R. is applied to export or Library view.

    I have never used Output sharpening (though I see on here that some recommend using it) b/c I want exactly what I see in Develop mode to be exactly what is exported. This has never been a problem until some time in the last 2-4 weeks.

    Photos that I've exported to jpegs before 2-3 weeks ago are sharp and crisp and exactly as I'd edited them in LR4. When I view them those photos in LR LIbrary now, they are blurry and shown without the sharpening applied to them that IS still shown in the Develop mode.

    Please tell me that someone has been able to resolve this issue!!!
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Please keep your replies to just one relevant thread. If this is your way of asking for someone else to tell you something else, ok, I'll back out of the discussion.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

next » « previous