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Lightroom: Spot Removal freeze (Win 7)

I have just bought Light Room3 (v3.5) on Dell Latitude E6520 with an Intel Core i7-2720QM processor, 8GB RAM and a 256GB SSD. I store my photos on a RAID5 NAS. When using the spot removal on .jpg files (so far it has not happened on raw - Nikon D7000 16MP .nef files) if use the tool more than twice in a row, LR freezes - the little hand makes a fist, processor works, memory used increases - looks like program is in a never ending loop). If I stop the program and re-start, the change is there. I notice on the web that this has been a problem for over a year but I cannot find a sensible fix. (There are many suggestions about bad drivers, bad power supplies etc.) Is there a fix? if so, what is it and where do I get it?
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  • We did some testing on this issue over at Lightroom Forums and identified that (at least on version 3.5) there is definitely a problem related to Windows 7 on a multi-core system. See this link: http://www.lightroomforums.net/showth...

    Doesn't happen on LR2, but I'm not sure about earlier LR3 versions as I haven't had time to go back and test.
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  • Thankyou - it's good to know that I'm not alone. One thing for me try would be to re-install without adding the updates.
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  • Jeffrey Tranberry (Chief Customer Advocate) December 11, 2011 23:52
    Is it possible the graphics drivers need updating? What video card are you using? Do you have more than one monitor set up? What's the resolution of the monitor you are using?

    I'd go directly to the nVidia or AMD/ATI site to make sure you have the latest drivers.
    • view 2 more comments
    • Same exact scenario to George, very similar hardware, monitors, nVidia GTX 560 Ti, brand new and updated. 16 GB of RAM, AMD FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core processor, SSD drive for OS and 2TB hard disk for media. This occurred on our last machine as well, which wasn't quite as powerful.
    • I have noticed that it is more frequent when working on files that I had edited in photoshop and then saved as psd. Also tried operating the catalog on both drives, SSD and hard disk, no change.
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  • Jeffrey,

    IMHO, there is definitely a problem in LR 3.5 cloning in 1:1 zoom level related to JPEG images and multicore processors.

    I also did some testing related to the thread Jim mentions at lightroomforums.net. I tested with both my

    • notebook (dual-core i7 2620M 2.7GHz processor, Intel and NVIDIA video controller)

    • desktop (six-core i7 980X 3.33GHz processor, ATI Radeon video controller)


    and they both show the hangs (freezes) in spot removal when done in a 1:1 zoom level. Dedicating LR to run on one core only makes the problem disappear on both systems.

    Please see also this thread over at the U2U forum which discusses the same subject.

    This is a sample image on which the problem occurs quite heavily. I don't know what kind of JPEGs show the problem the most, I've noticed that pixel dimensions have an influence (very small JPEGs seem not to show the problem).

    Beat

    P.S: If you need any instructions on how to reproduce the problem, please ask. The original post in the thread Jim mentions describes it pretty well though.

    I've also tried to record a screen capture of the behaviour, but while running my screen capture software, the problem does not occur :-(
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  • Hi Beat, many thanks, I'll try this tonight along with Jeffrey's suggestion.

    George
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  • Jeffrey Tranberry (Chief Customer Advocate) December 12, 2011 15:59
    Thanks guys. Appreciate the additional details - just want to make sure we've debugged all possible culprits - and have a complete picture with which to have someone on the QE team try and reproduce.
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  • Hi Jeffrey, I have done some tests and think it is probably a thread problem. This is the 2nd time I've typed this in so will do it in bits this time. 1st the remaining hardware details. My video card is NVIDIA NVS 4200M 512MB (45W) Discrete Graphics see below
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  • I started testing (with LR3 allowed to run on all cores) a raw (.nef) photo with dimensions 4928*3264pixels. I sarted testing by doing 5 spot removals, each followed immediately with a spot update. I did it at 1:1, 4:1 and 11:1 zoom. I had no problems.

    I did the same using a jpg version of the same photo (from the camera) and always had problems at 4:1 zoom when LR3 'froze after the 1st or 2nd attempt.I had no problems at 1:1 or 11:1

    I repeated using a LR3 export of the same photo (1024 * 678pixels) and had some problems at 11:1 zoom. This happened less often than in the previous test. I had no problems at 1:1 or 4:1
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  • I then started 'playing' with 'processor affinity'. I had no problems with any of the above when running on 1 core (CPU0). At 7 CPUs I had less trouble than with 8, and with 6 CPUs less trouble than with 7.

    I noticed when LR froze, one core was always working harder that the others. If I unselected that core, 9 out of 10 times LR 'unfroze' as I pressed the OK button in the 'Processor Affinity' pane.
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  • My first thought was there was probably some sort of race condition with one thread looping (not always flat out - the hardest working thread I saw was about 80-85% and it 'grew' to this level over a couple of seconds.) possibly waiting for another thread to finish but would stopping the looping thread before it finished allow other threads to continue?

    Hope this all helps
    George
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  • George and Beat, does the bug still happen for you with Lightroom 3.6 (now available on adobe.com)? I tried clone spot removal with Beat's sample image, zoomed to 1:1, and added over 30 spots without any problems.
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    • Beat - and that is probably why this problem has persisted so long, it can't be consistently described or duplicated between machines. Do you have the i-5/7 cores or the Xeon series? I have the Xeon E5520 2.27GHz processors (2).

      Jeff
    • Jeff,

      This screenshot (from above) was taken on a i7 980X with Hyperthreading enabled. But I also see similar behaviour on my notebook with an i7 2620M with Hyperthreading enabled (see here).

      Disabling Hyperthreading seems to cure the problem on my i7 2620M (2 cores left), but not on my 980X (6 cores left), as this screenshot shows. Note that when Hyperthreading is off, one core is close to (but not AT) 100% during the lockup period.

      Beat
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  • Don't know yet :-) trying (unsuccessfully so far) to update video driver. Will now try LR3.6 upgrade first
    Thanks
    George
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  • Hi Becky,

    No, I'm afraid it still happens but it seems sometimes to be more likely to come back by itself - after 20-25 seconds. (at least it did it twice which I'd not seen before)
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  • Becky,

    I haven't installed 3.6 yet, I'll test and report back after the week end.

    Beat
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  • I've just installed 3.6 and retested using Beat's jpeg, but still getting the same inconsistent results.

    First test: made two clone spot removal attempts (each case rather extreme long distance clones), got the closed-fist lockup on the second one and this did not clear so had to force quit using Task Manager.

    Second Test went better, was able to apply copious spot removals but did not attempt to update the sampling spot from the LR selection. After 20-30 of these I then started adjusting the sampling area and got the 'temporary for a few seconds' closed fist. Slow and jerky, but could survive.

    Third Test, repeated the second test, but this time after successfully applying spot removals using default sampling area, then got the full closed fist lockup when attempting long distance clones which did not recover. Force quit required.

    Fourth Test: tried to repeat the first test, and on the very first attempt the cursor/fist simply disappeared (the cursor reappears when I move outside the Lightroom window).and still hasn't reappeared within Lightroom while I was typing this note. Another force quit required.

    So basically no change at all from 3.5.

    Question: was there a specific fix applied in 3.6 for this bug?
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  • Same here. I just installed LR 3.6 on my notebook (dual-core i7 2620M 2.7GHz processor with HyperThreading), Intel and NVIDIA video controller) and get the same (inconsistent, but repeating) results as in 3.5. This does not happen if I confine LR to Core0. Please note the HyperThreading in effect for both cores.

    @Becky:
    If I can assist with having debug traps in place, I'd be happy to test for you with your instructions.

    Beat
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  • Just to add that after waiting in vain for over 10 minutes for my cursor to come back inside Lightroom, I used the Task Manager to assign affinity to one core only and got immediate recovery of the cursor AND the ability to rapidly and smoothly add many more long-distance spot removals.

    BTW, I did not have to be zoomed into 1:1 for any of the above problems....they happen just the same in Fit view.
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  • after waiting in vain for over 10 minutes for my cursor to come back inside Lightroom, I used the Task Manager to assign affinity to one core only and got immediate recovery of the cursor AND the ability to rapidly and smoothly add many more long-distance spot removals


    This is what I'm experiencing also. Assigning affinity to one core immediately solves the "lock". Also, I've never had to kill LR to recover, it always came back by itself after a (varying) while (but I'm a patient IT person :-))

    Beat
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  • George, I think you'll find that it doesn't really matter which single core you assign affinity to, it's just the fact that a single core is assigned which causes LR to 'unlock'. I've assigned both inactive and active cores with the same result.
    • view 2 more comments
    • I would agree with you about the inconsistencies but think I am more impatient than you - if it freezes for more than about 30 seconds, I'm too impatient to wait - so I don't know about it recovering after a few minutes. I notices in LR3.6 it was more likely to recover (within my limited attention span) than with 3.5.1.
    • In a real-life situation I also would be far more impatient, I've let it 'hang' for minutes at a time only as part of a targeted testing effort in order to provide as much information as possible to the Adobe engineers and the folks over at Lightroom Forums.
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  • I’m frustrated
    More than one person has confirmed that the problem is happening when all of the following conditions are met:

    - JPEG image
    - Core i5 / Core i7 CPU
    - Hyperthreading enabled

    Disable hyperthreading and the problem does not occur, or at least not as often.

    With only one core assigned forcibly to LR process the problem never occurs.

    See this thread (which has been running for 1.5 years now):

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/40913...
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  • I am having the same problem myself.
    The problem has been described well enough here and elsewhere, so not going to bother repeating everything, lest just add that I too am suffering from this bug, and hope Adobe can fix it ASAP.

    (I am aware of the 'fix' of changing CPU affinity, but I find that a wholly unsatisfactory solution. I shouldn't have to hamper my computer/software to circumvent something that is most assuredly a bug.)

    Helge
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  • As an experiment over new year I installed LR3.6 onto my wife's computer - same make/model as my own but more modern - and had exactly the same hanging problem with spot removal.
    George
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  • Sorry to be late to this party, but I have struggled with this problem for a several months. For me, it happens with 16-bit tiff files created by LR 3.6, externally edited (Ctrl+E) in PS CS5, and automatically added to the catalog by LR after editing. Don't recall if it happens with raw (CR2) files or not. Camera is Canon 5D2.

    FWIW, here is some system info reported by Windows (sorry for the mess below):

    System:
    OS Name: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional
    Version: 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
    System Type: x64-based PC
    Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU X 980 @ 3.33GHz, 3334 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
    BIOS Version/Date: American Megatrends Inc. 0701, 10/05/2011
    SMBIOS Version: 2.5
    Hardware Abstraction Layer: Version = "6.1.7601.17514"
    Time Zone: Eastern Standard Time
    Installed Physical Memory: 24.0 GB
    Total Physical Memory: 24.0 GB
    Available Physical Memory: 17.6 GB
    Total Virtual Memory: 48.0 GB
    Available Virtual Memory: 40.0 GB
    Page File Space: 24.0 GB

    Graphics:
    Name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260
    PNP Device ID: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_05E2&SUBSYS_0CFB19F1&REV_A1\4&2F1C4782&0&0018
    Adapter Type: GeForce GTX 260, NVIDIA compatible
    Adapter Description: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260
    Adapter RAM: 896.00 MB (939,524,096 bytes)
    Installed Drivers: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,
    : nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
    Driver Version: 8.17.12.7533
    INF File: oem36.inf (Section005 section)
    Color Planes: Not Available
    Color Table Entries: 4294967296
    Resolution: 1920 x 1200 x 59 hertz
    Bits/Pixel: 32
    Memory Address: 0xFA000000-0xFAFFFFFF
    Memory Address: 0xD0000000-0xDFFFFFFF
    Memory Address: 0xF8000000-0xFBCFFFFF
    I/O Port: 0x0000CC00-0x0000CC7F
    IRQ Channel: IRQ 24
    I/O Port: 0x000003B0-0x000003BB
    I/O Port: 0x000003C0-0x000003DF
    Memory Address: 0xA0000-0xBFFFF
    Driver: c:\windows\system32\drivers\nvlddmkm.sys (8.17.12.7533, 12.59 MB (13,206,120 bytes), 21/05/2011 6:01 AM)
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  • Hi Richard, Thanks for the info, I hope Becky and/or Jeffrey will find it useful. Nothing has happened over Christmas and new year, Cheers George
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  • LR 3.6 Spot Removal Tool hangs the program. But of course you already know this. It's been a problem for at least 1 1/2 years - based on forum comments. Anyway, please fix at least by LR4 release.

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Lightroom 3.6: Spot Remvoal Tool hangs application.
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  • From some initial testing in the LR4Beta it would seem the problem may well be fixed in that release.
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  • I’m frustrated
    Lightroom keeps freezing and stops responding when I use the spot removal tool 60% of the time I have to shut down Lightroom using the task manger and then reopen. Any solutions. This was happening in Version 3.5 as well as 3.6

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Lightroom freezes up using healing brush.
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  • George and Beat -

    While it's a very frustrating problem that needs to be fixed, your detailed investigation is incredible. Thank you for your focus and posting your findings and how do "resolve" by managing CPU affinity settings.

    I'm encouraged to see LR4 appears to fix it, though share the concern that it should be fixed in an LR3 update rather than having to wait, then buy the LR4 production release.
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  • Hi Sue,
    I too would like to see it fixed in an LR3 update but I do undersand that this may not actually be possible (depending on what had to be changed, the 'fix' may not be backward compatible) However I am hoping that the cost of the up[grade may be minimal. I am however heartened by the amount of discussion this has stimulated. I may still have the problem, but I no longer feel alone with the problem.
    Cheers
    George
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  • George, thank you for being so persistent with this. Because of your work I have at least gained a tremendous amount of information about this problem and similar instances. Too bad there doesn't seem to be a fix that will be applied to LR3...
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  • Hi John,
    I think Beat is the one who made the breakthrough about the problem being due to multi-hreading. I only expanded a little on it.
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  • Adding to the choir, Lightroom 3.6 freezes when I use the heal tool. I have to kill it with Task Manager. I observe 50-70% CPU usage on all cores. Lightroom process is slowly allocating more RAM. My computer: Intel i5 750, 16GB RAM, GeForce 9500 GT (driver version 296.10), Windows 7 64-Bit. If I set Lightroom's processor affinity to one core Lightroom no longer freezes.
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  • I’m frustrated
    Lightroom 3.6 running on Windows 7 Pro with 8 GB RAM and 6 core AMD CPU. Use of Develop: Spot Removal hangs application and is very repeatable. Recently purchased LightRoom 3.6 and the school is not ready to purchase upgrade to 4.

    An internet search for this problem resulted in numerous hit, so I believe this is a common issue. This feature is important to my student's workflow and certainly impacts their impression of Adobe's products.

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Lightroom 3.6 SPOT REMOVAL hangs application..
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  • Hi Paul, Yep it is a pain and a disappointment and I believe it is actually fixed in Lightroom 4. But like you I am not about to buy that (at least till I find out that it doesn't have similar problems). I have started using raw files so it no longer effects me.

    Cheers
    George
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